War Room OT Discussion v4

[Jack V Savage]

No, it wouldn't. You can be a tribalist who has sympathies with a few of the views of the other side.

But I can't see everything as right or left is the point.

The point here is that on most issues, including the Nunes memo, there is tons of daylight between e.g. "Nothingburger!" and "Worse than Watergate!", but you don't dig into that daylight nearly enough. You just assumed that someone who thought there might be some substance to the Nunes memo was a full-fledged conspiracy theorist.

Yes, I don't see this daylight you're referring to on this one issue. Nunes is just lying to try to throw the heat off Trump. That seems so obvious that it doesn't need to be said. But you reject it for some reason. What is it? Seems to me it's only that you support his goal. And you've further commented that you think that Trump is not involved in any of the wrongdoing that has surrounded him. Why? Not because he has a history of being a stand-up guy. Again, I think it's just tribalism.

 

[waiguoren]

But Nunes has a history of blatant dishonesty and is highly interested in representing the fanatically pro-Trump FBI as being anti-Trump in order to discredit the investigation into Trump's campaign. Surely you know this. But you're acting as if there is legitimacy to it. Why? Only because your "team" needs for people to believe it so you guys act like you really do. Later, when it's discredited, the reaction will be along the lines of "LOL, got you libs!" It's just like former libertarians suddenly cheering on authoritarianism and gov't corruption. Or formerly religious people dismissing various forms of immoral behavior that they previously expressed outrage over. I believe that your problems with Hannity and Jones are only that they are too obvious and low-brow, and thus you're tarred with the association. The goals are the same, though.

There is so much wrong here that it's pointless to engage. Just know that you are waaaay off the mark.

What would you call them instead? "Persons directed affected by the DREAM Act"? Anyway, this seems like we agree. I think it is correct to say that I represented your position accurately but did not spin it the way you would prefer.

"People eligible for DACA." Concise.

And no, I don't agree that you represented my view accurately.

What is the basis of the belief that they should be rounded up and deported?

This is strawman #4 of the day. Never on these forums did I argue that those eligible for DACA should be "rounded up and deported".

Primarily, you're concerned about America becoming less white, yes?

No.

 

[Jack V Savage]

There is so much wrong here that it's pointless to engage. Just know that you are waaaay off the mark.

"People eligible for DACA." Concise.

That still seems pretty ugly (verbally speaking) and contrived.

And no, I don't agree that you represented my view accurately.

What is the substantive difference?

This is strawman #4 of the day. Never on these forums did I argue that those eligible for DACA should be "rounded up and deported".

No.

You don't support getting rid of them and you don't support keeping them? What's the alternative?

And what, then, is your primary immigration concern?

 

[Jack V Savage]

BTW, @waiguoren now that the memo has come out and turned out to be a flop, has your view changed? You would have lost our bet if you'd actually been willing to make one.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

How so? Does it invalidate Comey's tweet magically?

It doesn’t invalidate it magically, but it is a glaring counter example. Comey states, “American history shows that, in the long run, weasels and liars never hold the field, so long as good people stand up. Not a lot of schools or streets named for Joe McCarthy.” Meanwhile J. Edgar Hoover was indeed a weasel and a liar, and much worse, and the headquarters of the very institution Comey is praising is named after him. I mean, I guess I could try to drudge up all the other scumbags and scoundrels and confederate traitors who have buildings and streets named after them in this country if his point needed to be invalidated further...

I consider myself very patriotic, but even to me that tweet came across as overly optimistic and saccharine sweet.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It doesn’t invalidate it magically, but it is a glaring counter example. Comey states, “American history shows that, in the long run, weasels and liars never hold the field, so long as good people stand up. Not a lot of schools or streets named for Joe McCarthy.” Meanwhile J. Edgar Hoover was indeed a weasel and a liar, and much worse, and the headquarters of the very institution Comey is praising is named after him. I mean, I guess I could try to drudge up all the other scumbags and scoundrels and confederate traitors who have buildings and streets named after them in this country if his point needed to be invalidated further...

I consider myself very patriotic, but even to me that tweet came across as overly optimistic and saccharine sweet.

Hoover is widely considered a disgrace, though. I think the general point (that weasels and liars don't hold the field as long as good people stand up) is right, but there are some exceptions (I'd point more to Confederates).

 

[JonesBones]

capitalism is a religion. the invisible hand. it is like christians who just leave everything to God. He will make sure things work out. It is Hegelian. Like there is actually reason arising from chaos without human intervention. Marxism is also Hegelian.

What is rational is actual and what is actual is rational. The universe is rational so things will sort themselves out.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

Hoover is widely considered a disgrace, though. I think the general point (that weasels and liars don't hold the field as long as good people stand up) is right, but there are some exceptions (I'd point more to Confederates).

True enough, but the looming example of Hoover just immediately jumped out at me, especially when the major distinctions between Hoover and McCarthy boil down to power and competence and not moral righteousness or even cause.

 

[HomerThompson]

It doesn’t invalidate it magically, but it is a glaring counter example. Comey states, “American history shows that, in the long run, weasels and liars never hold the field, so long as good people stand up. Not a lot of schools or streets named for Joe McCarthy.” Meanwhile J. Edgar Hoover was indeed a weasel and a liar, and much worse, and the headquarters of the very institution Comey is praising is named after him. I mean, I guess I could try to drudge up all the other scumbags and scoundrels and confederate traitors who have buildings and streets named after them in this country if his point needed to be invalidated further...

I consider myself very patriotic, but even to me that tweet came across as overly optimistic and saccharine sweet.

I really focused on the message, instead of the fact that J. Edgar Hoover(who wasn't mentioned by name) was a piece of shit. Considering you're inferring that he's referencing Hoover, that's your own bias coming into play.

Shitting on weasels and liars is a good thing. As is denigrating McCarthy. The rest is just you having beef with the history of the FBI.

Aside: This is coming from someone who also has beef with the history of the FBI.

 

[Jesus H. Sherdog]

I really focused on the message, instead of the fact that J. Edgar Hoover(who wasn't mentioned by name) was a piece of shit. Considering you're inferring that he's referencing Hoover, that's your own bias coming into play.

Shitting on weasels and liars is a good thing. As is denigrating McCarthy. The rest is just you having beef with the history of the FBI.

Aside: This is coming from someone who also has beef with the history of the FBI.

Wait, I didn’t infer that he was referencing Hoover. But he referenced the FBI, and the naming of streets and institutions, and I couldn’t help but immediately think of how the FBI HQ had a tragic name itself.

 

[Trotsky]

Wait, I didn’t infer that he was referencing Hoover. But he referenced the FBI, and the naming of streets and institutions, and I couldn’t help but immediately think of how the FBI HQ had a tragic name itself.

@HomerThompson He was just saying that it's an anecdote that humorously flies in the face of his statement. I didn't even realize the FBI was in the J. Edgar Hoover building, so I thought it was hilarious. It makes you wonder how Comey didn't think of it.

 

[waiguoren]

BTW, @waiguoren now that the memo has come out and turned out to be a flop, has your view changed? You would have lost our bet if you'd actually been willing to make one.

I don't see the memo as a flop. I also would have won our bet.

Keep trying, Jack!

 

[Gregolian]

So.....

After years I finally got around to watching The Wire and finished it two nights ago. Is there any show that compares to it that is just as interesting to watch that might be on Netflix or Amazon Video?

 

[Fawlty]

So.....

After years I finally got around to watching The Wire and finished it two nights ago. Is there any show that compares to it that is just as interesting to watch that might be on Netflix or Amazon Video?

It was the shit, wasn't it? The only series for me that's on the same level of epic-length artistry and drama is Breaking Bad (including Better Call Saul). Basically, you just watched one of the very best things artistic man has ever produced.

 

[Gregolian]

It was the shit, wasn't it? The only series for me that's on the same level of epic-length artistry and drama is Breaking Bad (including Better Call Saul). Basically, you just watched one of the very best things artistic man has ever produced.

God

Damnit.

Like, I just rewatched Punisher and will admit my fandom of the character is why I still love that show. Band of Brothers and Generation Kill fall into that for me too but I think BoB is cause it's watching modern day heroes that in 1000 years might get written about the way Homer and them wrote about people like Achilles and Generation Kill reminds me a ton of guys I personally know.

Trying to watch Arrow... other than drooling over Felicity and then Sara's tits falling out of her getup... I am SO FUCKING BORED!

I need to start Breaking Bad I suppose.



Still waiting on Clay Davis to get fucking thrown in the clink.

 

[Fawlty]

God

Damnit.

Like, I just rewatched Punisher and will admit my fandom of the character is why I still love that show. Band of Brothers and Generation Kill fall into that for me too but I think BoB is cause it's watching modern day heroes that in 1000 years might get written about the way Homer and them wrote about people like Achilles and Generation Kill reminds me a ton of guys I personally know.

Trying to watch Arrow... other than drooling over Felicity and then Sara's tits falling out of her getup... I am SO FUCKING BORED!

I need to start Breaking Bad I suppose.



Still waiting on Clay Davis to get fucking thrown in the clink.

Wait you haven't watched Breaking Bad?

Dude, Netflix, all seasons. Very rare that people don't get hooked on it.

 

[Gregolian]

Wait you haven't watched Breaking Bad?

Dude, Netflix, all seasons. Very rare that people don't get hooked on it.

One of my roommate's restarted watching it cause he got 3 seasons in and then peter'd out on it years ago.

My intention was to watch that after I got done with Sons of Anarchy and before I got started on The Wire but then... well... we all know how Sons of Anarchy went after the midpoint of season 3. I didn't though cause though I like my roommates one of them, the guy that re-started Breaking Bad, tends to watch his TV in the living room SUPER loud... and the wall with my head next to it on my bed shares the wall with the living room.

 

[Fawlty]

One of my roommate's restarted watching it cause he got 3 seasons in and then peter'd out on it years ago.

My intention was to watch that after I got done with Sons of Anarchy and before I got started on The Wire but then... well... we all know how Sons of Anarchy went after the midpoint of season 3. I didn't though cause though I like my roommates one of them, the guy that re-started Breaking Bad, tends to watch his TV in the living room SUPER loud... and the wall with my head next to it on my bed shares the wall with the living room.

I think you'll really like it once to get used to a few characters having annoying personalities. It's amazing to watch Brian Cranston take a character from meek, defeated high school teacher all the way to a vicious kingpin.

 

[Gregolian]

I think you'll really like it once to get used to a few characters having annoying personalities. It's amazing to watch Brian Cranston take a character from meek, defeated high school teacher all the way to a vicious kingpin.

I know the bits I saw while my roommate was watching it I started feeling bad for Jesse in the later season clips I saw because of how Cranston's character was fucking with him and treating him like shit the whole time.

 

[Fawlty]

I know the bits I saw while my roommate was watching it I started feeling bad for Jesse in the later season clips I saw because of how Cranston's character was fucking with him and treating him like shit the whole time.

Of all the spoilers to have gotten, that's a good one. For me the relationship between them is more interesting to watch after you already know that he's more than just bossy and controlling with him, but manipulating him on the deepest level almost right from the start.