War Room Lounge v64

[Islam Imamate]

The wild wild country documentary?

That's the one.

There isn't a firm answer or formula, but the extent to which the Church of LDS and the Southern Baptist church have monopolized life and political representation in Utah/the South is pretty obviously at odds with the original principles of secularism. Both churches hold an effective veto on any movement or candidate in their geographic areas. For what it's worth, the Mormons are less odious to me than the SBC or a lot of the charismatic church faiths and communities in the South.

Fair enough.

Senegal is often pointed to as an example of a "good" Muslim country because its relatively secular but the Sufi brotherhoods there have a ton of influence in society. In fact it has the highest level of membership to Sufi brotherhoods of any Muslim country, one of the few to still retain the mass engagement in Sufism that was characteristic of the premodern period. I think that's a good model for Muslim societies but I think secular minded people might still be uncomfortable with religion having that much influence in society even if its not through the state.

 

[Gregolian]

So he sold them a gigantic promise with a great sales pitch, and he was pretty legit in terms of being the pioneer type and the type who would build your house alongside you. Brigham Young was probably lesser in the charismatic leadership role but had business acumen and was good with logistics and hardman leadership. He also must have been quite smart, since he led the building of a successful society that was under serious pressure to survive their first year, and set up great city layouts (best thing about SLC imo). Settling on the Wasatch Front was also a clever or serendipitous move since it was very harsh in every direction for hundreds of miles, so people were inclined to stay after the difficult journey there.

I dunno, just some random ramblings.

The thing about Brigham Young that always impresses me to a point to is how he played hardball with the railroad too. He ultimately "lost" as the railroad ended just north of Ogden instead of in SLC like he wanted... but it still ended and had significant chunks of it run through Mormon land with Mormon workers being paid a wage on the western side of it.

The layout of SLC is fucking awesome too.

It takes a bit to warm up to that grid system and truly understand it given locations have addresses like 35 E 500 S and your brain is like "wait... what happened to a street address number and road name?"

 

[Fawlty]

There isn't a firm answer or formula, but the extent to which the Church of LDS and the Southern Baptist church have monopolized life and political representation in Utah/the South is pretty obviously at odds with the original principles of secularism. Both churches hold an effective veto on any movement or candidate in their geographic areas. For what it's worth, the Mormons are less odious to me than the SBC or a lot of the charismatic church faiths and communities in the South.

Mormons strike what I think is a pretty commendable balance between retaining a rigid faith and accommodating nonbelievers. It results in there being lots of "plastic" people but the pleasant exterior is quite serviceable for heathens, the Mormons don't ask much of you. Some shitty liquor store hours. The voting bloc is real and the lobbying is probably ridiculously corrupt, but I never felt like my freedom of cognition was in jeopardy or that I was under religious law.

 

[Fawlty]

The thing about Brigham Young that always impresses me to a point to is how he played hardball with the railroad too. He ultimately "lost" as the railroad ended just north of Ogden instead of in SLC like he wanted... but it still ended and had significant chunks of it run through Mormon land with Mormon workers being paid a wage on the western side of it.

The layout of SLC is fucking awesome too.

It takes a bit to warm up to that grid system and truly understand it given locations have addresses like 35 E 500 S and your brain is like "wait... what happened to a street address number and road name?"

Good point about the railroad, and honestly Ogden is just a superior railroad hub, as SLC is too far out of the way along the Great Stink Lake (seriously, it smells like a brine shrimp brothel sometimes).

Having any problems with allergies or dry eyes?

 

[Gregolian]

Mormons strike what I think is a pretty commendable balance between retaining a rigid faith and accommodating nonbelievers. It results in there being lots of "plastic" people but the pleasant exterior is quite serviceable for heathens, the Mormons don't ask much of you. Some shitty liquor store hours. The voting bloc is real and the lobbying is probably ridiculously corrupt, but I never felt like my freedom of cognition was in jeopardy or that I was under religious law.

I'm about as heathen/pagan whatever as they come compared to what a lot of people in the neighborhood I live in probably are and even my roommate.

Asked him about alcohol "as long as it isn't in a place where the kids can try some" was his only request. So, other than the cooking wines being on a shelf where even I need a foot stool to get to them it's all in my closet.

Good point about the railroad, and honestly Ogden is just a superior railroad hub, as SLC is too far out of the way along the Great Stink Lake (seriously, it smells like a brine shrimp brothel sometimes).

Having any problems with allergies or dry eyes?

Allergies yes. First like month I was here constant sneezing and shit. No dry eyes issue really but I wear contacts a lot and have eye drops for that reason like everywhere I go.

I wake up every morning with a stuffy nose and like Tuesday I blew it while sitting on the can in the morning and hunks of like slightly bloody dried mucus and shit came out so the dust is fucking with me a bit for sure.

I'm always amazed that everyone (in decent areas) has green lawns and am stunned that water bills aren't like $400 a month from watering the lawns and shit. Auto sprinkler systems seem to be stupid common too.

The thing I am looking forward to is duck hunting near the lake. Heard it's real good.

 

[Prokofievian]

That's the one.

Pretty good.

 

[Trotsky]

Whoa, a mashup of Joseph Smith and Adam Smith...hmm...

The invisible hand of God?

Lol, as I was typing that, I even thought to myself "huh, weird how I never noticed that they had the same name."

 

[Fawlty]

I'm about as heathen/pagan whatever as they come compared to what a lot of people in the neighborhood I live in probably are and even my roommate.

Asked him about alcohol "as long as it isn't in a place where the kids can try some" was his only request. So, other than the cooking wines being on a shelf where even I need a foot stool to get to them it's all in my closet.


Allergies yes. First like month I was here constant sneezing and shit. No dry eyes issue really but I wear contacts a lot and have eye drops for that reason like everywhere I go.

I wake up every morning with a stuffy nose and like Tuesday I blew it while sitting on the can in the morning and hunks of like slightly bloody dried mucus and shit came out so the dust is fucking with me a bit for sure.

I'm always amazed that everyone (in decent areas) has green lawns and am stunned that water bills aren't like $400 a month from watering the lawns and shit. Auto sprinkler systems seem to be stupid common too.

The thing I am looking forward to is duck hunting near the lake. Heard it's real good.

Ah the bloody nose blows. That should mostly pass in time lol. Be thankful your eyes are fine. I was in hell for months until the first winter came, and so were others I know who moved there.

There's more good hunting and fishing than I would have thought. Plenty of birds I hear. I guess the mountains yield some damn good deer hunts if you're inclined. Watch out for cougar and moose though, seriously. They get really aggro. PNW cougars and bears and stuff don't usually have as many problems surviving and aren't as bad imo. I was legit intimidated by the wildlife up above the valley, just a feeling you know?

 

[Gregolian]

Ah the bloody nose blows. That should mostly pass in time lol. Be thankful your eyes are fine. I was in hell for months until the first winter came, and so were others I know who moved there.

There's more good hunting and fishing than I would have thought. Plenty of birds I hear. I guess the mountains yield some damn good deer hunts if you're inclined. Watch out for cougar and moose though, seriously. They get really aggro. PNW cougars and bears and stuff don't usually have problems surviving and aren't as bad imo. I was legit intimidated by the wildlife up above the valley, just a feeling you know?

Yeah, we went into the Wasatch for a couple hours one weekend to do elk scouting and there was still snow up there (late May) in little patches and we DEFINITELY found a kill site, that was only a couple days old as the snow was still nice and red.

 

[Fawlty]

Yeah, we went into the Wasatch for a couple hours one weekend to do elk scouting and there was still snow up there (late May) in little patches and we DEFINITELY found a kill site, that was only a couple days old as the snow was still nice and red.

You were being watched and evaluated for flavor. I didn't truly appreciate the cougars until I saw a fresh paw print next to a pond I was visiting.

 

[Gregolian]

You were being watched and evaluated for flavor. I didn't truly appreciate the cougars until I saw a fresh paw print next to a pond I was visiting.

Nah, same guy went elk hunting one season by himself and got to the trailhead and NO ONE was around. Starts walking in and he gets a spooky feeling like he's being watched then hears a twig break. Turns around and two yellow eyes staring back at him out of the shadows....

He backed out staring down that thing with his gun pointed at it to his truck and drove away.



Yeah, mountain lions can fuck off.

 

[Trotsky]

Nah, same guy went elk hunting one season by himself and got to the trailhead and NO ONE was around. Starts walking in and he gets a spooky feeling like he's being watched then hears a twig break. Turns around and two yellow eyes staring back at him out of the shadows....

He backed out staring down that thing with his gun pointed at it to his truck and drove away.



Yeah, mountain lions can fuck off.

Omg so cute!

 

[Fawlty]

Nah, same guy went elk hunting one season by himself and got to the trailhead and NO ONE was around. Starts walking in and he gets a spooky feeling like he's being watched then hears a twig break. Turns around and two yellow eyes staring back at him out of the shadows....

He backed out staring down that thing with his gun pointed at it to his truck and drove away.



Yeah, mountain lions can fuck off.

Oh man. No freaking thank you. I got seriously spooked a couple of times up deep narrow canyons (Ogden Bench area, my local kickaround spot for hiking/climbing/dog-walking for years), and I don't know whether they were false alarms or not. I suppose it's best to trust it though. I'm not even sure what you're supposed to do in that situation like your friend was in...fire a warning shot?

 

[Gregolian]

Omg so cute!

Man, the way lots of people in this world interact with wild animals disturbs me.

Commissioner I used to work with drove through Yellowstone after he graduated law school and he grew up a hunter. He saw some lady walking TOWARDS a cow moose that had a calf with it with camera in one hand and a 4 year old holding onto her other hand.

Like, WTF?!

Speaking of Yellowstone, Steven Rinella was on JRE a couple years ago now talking about Yellowstone and how lots of people go "omg it's like nature untouched". His argument is that's a trash outlook on it. Why? Elk should view humans as a predator and the fact that you can walk right next to one at the giftshop in Yellowstone is a problem. Yes, it's illegal to kill elk IN the park... but elk migrate and the big reason that elk herd seems to never grow to those ridiculous numbers SOME elk herds can and do grow to is that herd gets hunted a ton once it moves beyond the park's boundaries.

 

[Gregolian]

Oh man. No freaking thank you. I got seriously spooked a couple of times up deep narrow canyons (Ogden Bench area, my local kickaround spot for hiking/climbing/dog-walking for years), and I don't know whether they were false alarms or not. I suppose it's best to trust it though. I'm not even sure what you're supposed to do in that situation like your friend was in...fire a warning shot?

He wasn't sure either. Nowadays he gets the "big game license" and specifically buys one predator tag good for wolf/bear/cougar so that if that situation happens again and the predator starts to follow him as he backs out he feels legally safer to kill it and harvest anything off it he can.

No game warden will jack you up for shooting one of those three animals to protect yourself but most hunters don't want to kill something and then just leave the body to rot. Cougars you can actually eat them and use their skins for shit same with bears and wolves you can also use the fur.

EDIT:
Though not required apparently parts of the Wasatch (not right near SLC mind you but closer to like the Grand Tetons and shit) it is HIGHLY recommended for elk hunters to carry a large bore sidearm cause of bears and other predators now.

 

[Fawlty]

He wasn't sure either. Nowadays he gets the "big game license" and specifically buys one predator tag good for wolf/bear/cougar so that if that situation happens again and the predator starts to follow him as he backs out he feels legally safer to kill it and harvest anything off it he can.

No game warden will jack you up for shooting one of those three animals to protect yourself but most hunters don't want to kill something and then just leave the body to rot. Cougars you can actually eat them and use their skins for shit same with bears and wolves you can also use the fur.

EDIT:
Though not required apparently parts of the Wasatch (not right near SLC mind you but closer to like the Grand Tetons and shit) it is HIGHLY recommended for elk hunters to carry a large bore sidearm cause of bears and other predators now.

I guess the guy from the video you posted handled it pretty well (he lived, for one thing), though if that cougar had been starving, he would be fucking lunch and not a damn thing he could have done (Wasatch cougars often risk starvation). When it first walked around via the bushes to his left, that was dudeman's cue to back away toward the road, shouldn't have let the cougar circle back onto the trail that close imo. That's about all I know, is don't fucking let them flank you behind cover like that. But standing his ground and talking to it like a naughty pet was pleasantly effective lol.

 

[Fawlty]

Trotsky with that cougar: "Aw come here big guy"

*cougar nestles gently into his lap and purrs*

 

[Gregolian]

I guess the guy from the video you posted handled it pretty well (he lived, for one thing), though if that cougar had been starving, he would be fucking lunch and not a damn thing he could have done (Wasatch cougars often risk starvation). When it first walked around via the bushes to his left, that was dudeman's cue to back away toward the road, shouldn't have let the cougar circle back onto the trail that close imo. That's about all I know, is don't fucking let them flank you behind cover like that. But standing his ground and talking to it like a naughty pet was pleasantly effective lol.

The way the dude turns his back on it to get his bike always freaks me the fuck out. Even more so after this:


And those are animals that are in captivity.

 

[Gregolian]

Trotsky with that cougar: "Aw come here big guy"

*cougar nestles gently into his lap and purrs*

The only cougars I like:

 

[spin]