War Room Lounge V36: Liquor in the rear, too

[Captain Davis]

I think it was a net gain for the US in the end so despite the very human, political motivations at play I think the Union was ultimately the more moral(or should I say less immoral?) party.

The people of the time very much thought that the most ethical way to organize society was to have Africans beneath whites. Of course that's not mutually exclusive to fighting for the profit motive or for "muh state's rights"

So yes you see a difference in fighting for slavery for ethical reasons than for profit motive? Do you think then that the Confederate's had a just cause knowing that the state's rights issue they were most concerned about was the preservation of slavery?

There is truth to everything you are saying. However, the moral side of slavery was nothing more than an irritant to Lincoln. It wasn’t important enough for him to go to war over.

If you want to understand why the Confederate fought, read their memoirs. You never see anything about fighting over slaves. That only applied to the plantation owners. The Confederates genuinely believed in state sovereignty. Lincoln shit all over that idea.

The slavery overreaction early on was fueled by the fire eaters in South Carolina who were chomping at the bit to secede due to the ridiculous taxation by the federal government.

Lincoln was elected without one Southern vote. When he stated that he was against slavery spreading westward, the South heard, I am going to change everything and there is nothing you can do about it. This was irrational fear, because Lincoln never said that. The plantation owners were afraid that Lincoln was going to abolish slavery and they would not be compensated for it.

Both sections wanted their stake on the new territory. The transcontinental railroad played a huge role in this as well.

Also 4 states waited to join the Confederacy after Lincoln continued to act like a tyrant.

The Confederates really believed this was a second revolution. The soldiers never even mentioned slavery in their writings.

Also, read up on how the majority of Federal soldiers felt about fighting for slaves. That will be an eye opener as well.

 

[Captain Davis]

But really, even if you accept those terms, one side was fighting for financial gain and the other side was fighting for financial gain made via slavery. I don't think the south has moral high ground to stand on here.

I think you would be surprised at how slaves were treated by each side if you really dove into it.

 

[RR]

Abusing the report function is not the point, you are not really addressing my question: Do you think reports are helpful to mod the forums? Or would you personally rather do away with the reporting function in general?

And yes, I am sure the workings of the mods are very mysterious, but what is the primary function of a mod here? Facilitate discussion? Enforce the rules? Etc.

I do think it's very helpful if used correctly. There's your answer.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Agreed, but I'm an obnoxious communist.

You're a commie??

 

[Fedorable]

I don't see where you got that idea. Abusing the report button though makes our job much more difficult and that's all I have commented on. We know what we are supposed to do beyond that to answer the second part. There are many things you guys don't see so I can't expect you to be aware of them. Obviously I can't discuss anything from the both so hopefully that answer is sufficient.

insufficient.

 

[Higus]

I think you would be surprised at how slaves were treated by each side if you really dove into it.

Unfortunately, I don't think I would be surprised.

 

[JDragon]

I do think it's very helpful if used correctly. There's your answer.

In essence, this means that while people abusing the report function as Homer apparently did disrupt mod business, there is no reason to fawn over 'never having reported anyone' based on what you say here as it is essentially evidence of a refusal to cooperate and share responsibility for a working community. Thanks.

Why do you keep weaseling out of the second question? Is that too political?

 

[Prokofievian]

I'll need to do some searching when I get home. I remember one of the issues I had learning it was the left hand was in like a 2 beat pattern while the right was in a 3 beat so learning how to keep them separate save for the first initial beat was the biggest bitch to learning it.

That sounds more like Fantasie Impromptu which is 4 on 3. I always found when mixing 3 on 2 and 4 on 3 that it was about the whole picture rather than keeping the hands ''separate.'' We're pianists, not drummers. The faster you go the more it works itself out anyways. There's just less time in which you can be ''off.''

 

[Captain Davis]

And state sovereignty is not the right to own slaves. By state sovereignty, the states were responsible to govern for themselves anything not explicitly stated in the Constitution. Lincoln and the Republicans wanted to strengthen Federal reach. The South wanted to maintain their rights as individual states.

 

[Captain Davis]

Unfortunately, I don't think I would be surprised.

Well Ok. Again, you are going off preconceived notions. Sometimes you have to seek the truth.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

But really, even if you accept those terms, one side was fighting for financial gain and the other side was fighting for financial gain made via slavery. I don't think the south has moral high ground to stand on here.

Neither side does. Blacks were freed and the states became enslaved to the federal system. The North could have both freed the slaves and recognized state sovereignty.

 

[Captain Davis]

K serious question re: US Civil War - what is the real point of difference between the two sides being debated here? The few things I've ever read about it (the last being a chapter in a history of the American economy, for example), have always seemed to take it for granted that slavery and economics were joint reasons for the war.

Is the argument about whether or not slavery would have been worth going to war for without the economic judgement behind its acceptability?

@Captain Davis
@Limbo Pete

If not for the economics, war would have never taken place.

 

[RR]

In essence, this means that while people abusing the report function as Homer apparently did disrupt mod business, there is no reason to fawn over 'never having reported anyone's based on what you say here as it is essentially evidence of a refusal to cooperate and share responsibility for a working community. Thanks.

Correct. We can't see everything so it helps us a lot. Unfortunately, we get people who decide to use it as a trolling tool which is a huge issue.

 

[LMP]

In essence, this means that while people abusing the report function as Homer apparently did disrupt mod business, there is no reason to fawn over 'never having reported anyone' based on what you say here as it is essentially evidence of a refusal to cooperate and share responsibility for a working community. Thanks.

Why do you keep weasling out of the second question? Is that too political?

@RR basically is ok reporting things that the website cant have porn , calling for people to die, threats, ect. (The OT is given special privilege as its nature) However using it to attack community members that you dont like causes problems. The mods cant read every post, and reporting people for the sole purpose of getting them in trouble takes the time they are giving up to the community, unpaid. That's why reporting for shit that doesn't really matter is frowned upon.

 

[Captain Davis]

Neither side does. Blacks were freed and the states became enslaved to the federal system. The North could have both freed the slaves and recognized state sovereignty.

Also, if freeing slaves was ever part of the equation there would have been plan in place to facilitate their transition. That never existed. They were just simply told hey your free. They had nowhere to go and no way to make a living.

Also, read up on how the Northern states welcomed the newly freed slaves.

 

[Gregolian]

That sounds more like Fantasie Impromptu which is 4 on 3. I always found when mixing 3 on 2 and 4 on 3 that it was about the whole picture rather than keeping the hands ''separate.'' We're pianists, not drummers. The faster you go the more it works itself out anyways. There's just less time in which you can be ''off.''

Agreed but it was definitely the Rachmaninoff that had it too... I learned that first before the Fantasie as well as that became instantly easier to learn cause I already knew how to mix the beat types.

Moonlight Sonata is an annoyingly difficult song too for how simplistic it looks/sounds cause of the damn pedal work.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Also, read up on how the Northern states welcomed the newly freed slaves.

I've lived in the Northeast. Nothin' but racial harmony there.

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

If not for the economics, war would have never taken place.

Alright, well that's a much clearer thesis anyway.

 

[Captain Davis]

Alright, well that's a much clearer thesis anyway.

Bottom line.

 

[JDragon]

@RR basically is ok reporting things that the website cant have porn , calling for people to die, threats, ect. (The OT is given special privilege as its nature) However using it to attack community members that you dont like causes problems. The mods cant read every post, and reporting people for the sole purpose of getting them in trouble takes the time they are giving up to the community, unpaid. That's why reporting for shit that doesn't really matter is frowned upon.

I understand that. Somehow, never using the report function has become a matter of honor for some forum members, so I wanted to stress that point (abuse is bad, but never using it as a matter of principle is essentially free riding).

@RR not sure whether you had seen my edit, why do you refuse to answer my second question? Too political? I am not trying to prove or unearth anything in that regard, just seriously curious what the key purpose of a mod is in these parts.