War Room Lounge V24: Mental Illness

[Prokofievian]

I dont understand

Universal Basic Income. People don't have enough money, give them money.

 

[Trotsky]

How do we even begin to fix this? (I'm sure somehow we will turn this in to a left vs right waste of time, but it was worth a shot)

https://www.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-worker-cant-afford-one-bedroom-rent-us-2018-6
A minimum-wage worker needs 2.5 full-time jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment in most of the US

The federal minimum wage is far below what a worker needs to earn to afford a one-bedroom apartment.
Justin Sullivan/Getty Images

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  • Many minimum-wage workers can't even afford a modest one-bedroom apartment, according to the National Low Income Housing Coalition's annual report.
  • The national housing wage for a modest one-bedroom apartment is $17.90, while the federal minimum wage is $7.25.
  • A low-income worker earning the federal minimum wage would need 2.5 jobs to afford a one-bedroom apartment.

Some solutions:
Living-expense-adjusted municipal wage floors
Municipal rent control
Federal universal healthcare (which downwardly distributes income and stabilizes poor people's budgets, prevents hundreds of thousands from entering bankruptcy)
Federal universal basic income - not only serves to insure basic expenses are covered, but drastically increases professional mobility, as people are not bogged down in slave labor to make ends meet
Tying federal corporate tax rates to workforce dependence on public subsidies
Tying private sector wage floors to profitability of private employers

These are all stances that, to varying extents, can be found in the Democratic Party and the American left generally. They all require sufficiently taxing corporations and high-income earners at rates that they previously were (and higher, if you ask me).

The Republican Party, and its surrogates here, have absolutely no policy for addressing poverty other than "give more money to rich people and more jobs will be created," which we know is both bogus and, even if it weren't, doesn't ensure that job creation with make for improving the economic lives of those getting the jobs. The best conservative posters here, like JudoThrowFiasco, will at least admit to you that they don't care about poor people and that poor people should/deserve to starve. The worse conservative posters will insist, without any specificity, that they do care about the poor and that the policies they are supporting will help them - because they are ignorant and because they're not smart enough to know what JudoThrow acknowledges.

 

[Trotsky]

I have often wondered how someone making minimum wage can even afford to live. I know out here, $13/hr cannot get you a place without a couple roommates. You HAVE to have government assistance. And once you are on that ticket, you ain't getting off. Fucked up IMO

It's brutal. I've decided that "brutal" is the best word I can think of to describe it. And rhetorical attacks on poor people being lazy and imputing myths about welfare queens to entire economic classes are despicable.

 

[Gregolian]

It's brutal. I've decided that "brutal" is the best word I can think of to describe it. And rhetorical attacks on poor people being lazy and imputing myths about welfare queens to entire economic classes are despicable.

NVM just minimum wage. Even those of use like me that are ABOVE the supposed national average needed of $17.09 are still stuck in two jobs to pay for a shitty 40 year old rental house where my room is just $330 a month cause of how expensive everything else is up here in WA.

EDIT:
I recently told my current boss I'm looking to apply for the legal assistant position that will be opening up in the prosecutor's office downstairs and when she asked why my answer was two fold:
"1.. it's what I went to school for. Plus even their entry level position earns $2 more an hour and with my bar job I'll finally be able to live comfortably... this job was designed for just a second income in the household... not to live on"

 

[Captain Davis]

Some solutions:
Living-expense-adjusted municipal wage floors
Municipal rent control
Federal universal healthcare (which downwardly distributes income and stabilizes poor people's budgets, prevents hundreds of thousands from entering bankruptcy)
Federal universal basic income - not only serves to insure basic expenses are covered, but drastically increases professional mobility, as people are not bogged down in slave labor to make ends meet
Tying federal corporate tax rates to workforce dependence on public subsidies
Tying private sector wage floors to profitability of private employers

These are all stances that, to varying extents, can be found in the Democratic Party and the American left generally. They all require sufficiently taxing corporations and high-income earners at rates that they previously were (and higher, if you ask me).

The Republican Party, and its surrogates here, have absolutely no policy for addressing poverty other than "give more money to rich people and more jobs will be created," which we know is both bogus and, even if it weren't, doesn't ensure that job creation with make for improving the economic lives of those getting the jobs. The best conservative posters here, like JudoThrowFiasco, will at least admit to you that they don't care about poor people and that poor people should/deserve to starve. The worse conservative posters will insist, without any specificity, that they do care about the poor and that the policies they are supporting will help them - because they are ignorant and because they're not smart enough to know what JudoThrow acknowledges.

Everything you mentioned just put every aspect of our lives in the government’s hands. When has the government ever put forth an efficient program for anyone?

People weren’t meant to live off of minimum wage jobs. Your problem is that you are putting the responsibility of ones wellfare in the hands of the government and taking it away from the individual. The government already wields far too much power. Your solutions will make is all suck from the governments teets forever.

 

[Gregolian]

Everything you mentioned just put every aspect of our lives in the givernnent’s hands. When has the government ever put forth an efficient program for anyone?

People weren’t meant to live off of minimum wage jobs. Your problem is that you are putting the responsibility of ones wellfare in the hands of the government and taking it away from the individual. The government already wields far too much power. Your solutions will make is all suck from the governments teets forever.

The one thing even I would support is more VARIED government housing.

As it stands, government housing only really exists for the people at the lowest end of the spectrum. It'd be nice if they could have varying "levels" of that so to speak available to people that make under say $50k a year (at least in my area as I think in WA you need to make near $75k to afford a single family house rent wise) and have it tiered.

As it stands now... I struggle to find places I can pay for rent wise without draining an entire check in order to pay for monthly rent and I don't work a minimum wage job.

EDIT:
As it stands to like government financial assistance and food stamps I don't have much of a stance on because I've luckily never been so down on my luck to need them but I DO know I've heard at least 3-4 guys a month pleading out to felonies telling Judge's they haven't worked in like 6 years cause they'd lose their government assistance if they did.

 

[Captain Davis]

The one thing even I would support is more VARIED government housing.

As it stands, government housing only really exists for the people at the lowest end of the spectrum. It'd be nice if they could have varying "levels" of that so to speak available to people that make under say $50k a year (at least in my area as I think in WA you need to make near $75k to afford a single family house rent wise) and have it tiered.

As it stands now... I struggle to find places I can pay for rent wise without draining an entire check in order to pay for monthly rent and I don't work a minimum wage job.

I can’t support more government intervention. Maybe set up a program amongst private developers to build tiered affordable housing?

 

[Trotsky]

Everything you mentioned just put every aspect of our lives in the givernnent’s hands.

No, it didn't. This hyperbole isn't just silly and baseless, it's also lazy.

When has the government ever put forth an efficient program for anyone?

Social security, healthcare in every other country, etc. Hell, are there any moderately informed persons on the right even trying to say private healthcare produces lower overheads anymore? It seems to me that they've pivoted entirely to an ideological "not the government's job" platform, since it's become undeniably obvious that government insurance and government healthcare both produce wildly more efficient models than private American healthcare.

People weren’t meant to live off of minimum wage jobs.

This is a stupid thing to say, and it's demonstrably untrue when revisiting the debate over the introduction of minimum wage standards.

Your problem is that you are putting the responsibility of ones wellfare in the hands of the government and taking it away from the individual. The government already wields far too much power. Your solutions will make is all suck from the governments teets forever.

Again, these are more hollow platitudes that cannot be substantiated (what is "too much power" can not be rationally quantified) nor reasoned with. And they are not convincing to those of us wanting to focus on solutions, as opposed to discarding solutions with broad sweeping statements about the roles of individuals and institutions. Your position would have been equally unconvincing to feudal-era, to colonial-era, and to Great Depression-era intellectuals that had to tackle "muh gubberment" people who can't be brought to realize that, in a democratic society, government is a collection of individuals making rational choices, rather than some shadowy monolithic cabal.

 

[Gregolian]

I can’t support more government intervention. Maybe set up a program amongst private developers to build tiered affordable housing?

Maybe not government building the apartment buildings but some kind of regulation that for every half a million dollar per condo complex you build you need to be on track to build something where rent doesn't exceed $750 would be nice....

The Pacific Northwest housing situation is utterly fucked right now because of Microsoft, Google, Nintendo, and Amazon all currently calling Seattle home in some fashion and that housing shit has leaked it's way 2 hours north too.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...to-the-foundation-of-the-housing-cost-crisis/

This is just Seattle but it applies to the rest of the State outside of backwoods places like Concrete, Kettle Falls, and Deer Park.

 

[Captain Davis]

No, it didn't. This hyperbole isn't just silly and baseless, it's also lazy.



Social security, healthcare in every other country, etc. Hell, are there any moderately informed persons on the right even trying to say private healthcare produces lower overheads anymore? It seems to me that they've pivoted entirely to an ideological "not the government's job" platform, since it's become undeniably obvious that government insurance and government healthcare both produce wildly more efficient models than private American healthcare.



This is a stupid thing to say, and it's demonstrably untrue when revisiting the debate over the introduction of minimum wage standards.

Again, these are more hollow platitudes that cannot be substantiated (what is "too much power" can not be rationally quantified) nor reasoned with. And they are not convincing to those of us wanting to focus on solutions, as opposed to discarding solutions with broad sweeping statements about the roles of individuals and institutions. Your position would have been equally unconvincing to feudal-era, to colonial-era, and to Great Depression-era intellectuals that had to tackle "muh gubberment" people who can't be brought to realize that, in a democratic society, government is a collection of individuals making rational choices, rather than some shadowy monolithic cabal.

You used all of those words to simply say that you want to be a slave to the government.

 

[Captain Davis]

And lol at Social Secutity being run efficiently

 

[Prokofievian]

But like gubernmuhnt bayud n stuff.

 

[Andy Capp]

I have a couple threads going on so I am not going to make another one about this. That said I find it interesting that Asia still seems to be against gay marriage.
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...MW6GpCW4_UhEeF2pEHSGh8zjYE7izzjH7EPSvo1MRwX0o




Recommended by

This is relevance adjacent,
http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/146941289/
"'It's not a one size fits all when it comes to your sex and gender,' says behavioural neuroscientist"

 

[Trotsky]

You used all of those words to simply say that you want to be a slave to the government.

You could have just said "I can't form a cogent position here and I therefore surrender."

I also think that one of the biggest threats to maximally efficient government administration is simpletons that are susceptible to misinformation and will, pursuant to it, vote to defund, obstruct, and privatize administration to their own detriment and to the profit of bad actors. This used to occur using "gubberment bad" rhetoric and myths about inefficiency, but people wised up to that, so now it's just being used as a tag-on to right-wing social policy like anti-immigration because people never vote for it on its own merits (see: Denmark).

 

[Captain Davis]

But like gubernmuhnt bayud n stuff.

As a man, would you rather be self sufficient and responsible for yours and your family’s wellbeing...or would you rather depend on someone else to take care of you?

 

[Captain Davis]

You could have just said "I can't form a cogent position here and I therefore surrender."

I also think that one of the biggest threats to maximally efficient government administration is simpletons that are susceptible to misinformation and will, pursuant to it, vote to defund, obstruct, and privatize administration to their own detriment and to the profit of bad actors. This used to occur using "gubberment bad" rhetoric and myths about inefficiency, but people wised up to that, so now it's just being used as a tag-on to right-wing social policy like anti-immigration because people never vote for it on its own merits (see: Denmark).

Government hasn’t fixed anything. All we do is sit around and bitch about what politicians should do. Yet, it never happens.

I’d rather depend on myself.

 

[Gregolian]

I think a huge barrier to getting people off assistance is housing still.

I remember when I didn't know where I was going to be living this summer (not really a matter of not having cash but nothing in my price range (comfortable price range) was open until like October and I was looking in July) my stress levels shot through the roof to the point I was getting MAYBE 2 hours of sleep a night, couldn't keep food down, my digestion was all fucked up and I looked like the walking dead according to coworkers.

 

[Prokofievian]

As a man, would you rather be self sufficient and responsible for yours and your family’s wellbeing...or would you rather depend on someone else to take care of you?

Of course, I'd rather be self sufficient. I am self sufficient and I don't have any plans to not be, whether I live in a country with a robust social safety net, or not.

 

[Quipling]

Government hasn’t fixed anything.

Did a pretty good job on fixing some major environmental problems.

Emissions of air pollutants have dropped massively since the govt started aggressively regulating them via the Clean Air Act.

Sulfur Dioxide emissions in the US went from 31 million tons in 1970 to 2.71 million tons in 2016.

 

[Trotsky]

Government hasn’t fixed anything. All we do is sit around and bitch about what politicians should do. Yet, it never happens.

I’d rather depend on myself.

Then go live in a cave and shit in a hole in the ground with the other geniuses while the rest of us pool our resources toward common interests like not having rat shit and strychnine in our food, not drinking polychlorinated biphenyls by the gallon, having a fully literate and basically educated society, not dying of terrible and easily treatable diseases, etc.