War Room Lounge v153: Without Floyd it's an amazing sport.

[Deleted member 539235]

You guys should release thousands of frogs and bats.

Worst case scenario, you have a lot of frogs and bats.

 

[Trotsky]

They have different kinetic energies. Kinetic energy is 1/2 m v^2. You get that from the definition of kinetic energy, being the amount of work done to accelerate the object to the velocity v. When the bullet hits the object, if it penetrates or not, there is still a reaction from the body that it is penetrating which is proportional to the impact force, which is proportional to the kinetic energy. So yes, it causes a lot more damage. If you shot someone with a projectile that had enough energy, they'd vapourize. IIRC, Nasa has a gun to test what happens when little space particles strike satellites and space craft at orbital velocities (several miles per second), and the answer is the spacecraft often vapourizes.

Take this as a practical example: do a belly flop from 3 feet, and then do a belly flop from 9 feet. You are penetrating the water in both cases, but the water does a lot more damage to you when you jump from 9 feet than if you jump from 3 feet.

You had me until the practical example, which I don't think applies since your shifting the roles and a belly flop absorbs the surface tension of the water rather than fully penetrating it (which would be more akin to diving into the water and through a portal at the bottom).

But, to be clear, even when there is no drag in the body and the projectile is perfectly stable through the process of penetration, excess kinetic force is still transferred in some proportion to the amount of excess kinetic force? So, if we substitute out the body for a large piece of paper, does the hole left behind increase in size with the velocity at the point of penetration?

 

[Gregolian]

So, if we substitute out the body for a large piece of paper, does the hole left behind increase in size with the velocity at the point of penetration?

No. Take a .308, a 30-06, and a .300 Win Mag that all shoot the same projectile just with different powder amounts and the physical hole in the paper will be the same size.

 

[Trotsky]

It's weird how my own responses to bats vary so much basd on the type.

For instance, fruit bats? They could be everywhere. They're cute as hell.

Brown bats? Creepy as hell.

 

[Trotsky]

No. Take a .308, a 30-06, and a .300 Win Mag that all shoot the same projectile just with different powder amounts and the physical hole in the paper will be the same size.

Well now I'm lost again, then, because that's what I thought. @Prokofievian

 

[Possum Jenkins]

You can pickle it in a soy sauce/vinegar/hot pepper mix, and that's great and not messy.

That's a no for me, dawg.

I'm one of those that isn't cool mixing fruit or any other sweets with salty or spicy anything. When it's mango time, I just stand in front of the kitchen sink, make an absolute mess, then wash myself.

 

[Deleted member 539235]

It's weird how my own responses to bats vary so much basd on the type.

For instance, fruit bats? They could be everywhere. They're cute as hell.

Brown bats? Creepy as hell.

i was just making a corona joke, bats are cool as fuck, all of them

 

[Gregolian]

Well now I'm lost again, then, because that's what I thought. @Prokofievian

That's just shooting paper. If the projectile is the same size, at least with a bullet and doesn't drift/tumble/yaw because of wind or some shit before it hits the paper it will lave the same size hole (I'm talking about it from the sense that it's stapled to like a plywood board the way a lot of rifle ranges do it).

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

https://www.theamericanconservative...llection-of-losers-it-doesnt-have-to-be/?s=09

I am not the first person to point out that conservative political coalitions are mostly just collections of losers, but the point nevertheless bears repeating. Today’s conservatism is merely the name used to categorize the rejects of the post–Cold War order: this includes a few oddball financiers who can’t play nicely with others, extractive industries and other declining sectors, the small businesses most reliant on low-wage, low-skill labor, and a group often referred to as social conservatives who have been almost totally marginalized from mainstream culture. At bottom, nothing holds this gang of misfits together except exclusion from the dominant group of big tech oligarchs, more respectable financial rent seekers, and the leading cultural tastemakers in media and academia.

The conservative favorite Lord Acton famously quipped that power corrupts, but as the self-described Marxist Slavoj Žižek is fond of pointing out, powerlessness corrupts, too. One effect of conservatives’ waning economic and social power has been a retreat into their own self-referential identity groups and subcultures—bizarre little cults ranging from Straussians to Burkeans to the various branches of “Austrian economics.” Conservatives applaud themselves for this apparent devotion to “ideas,” but it’s actually just an effect—and a cause—of their irrelevance with respect to matters of practical importance and almost total intellectual incoherence. Despite this obsession with theoretical inquiry, however, conservatives have been nearly banished from the academy, prestige media, and cultural institutions. The leading “conservative thinkers” of the last 20 years have influenced hardly anyone beyond the next generation of downwardly mobile graduate students.

Verbal destruction of @Trotsky-level proportions.

 

[tonni]

@Prokofievian You're an engineer, right?

For the physics people, answer me this:

In terms of being struck by a projectile, is there any effect to the projectile traveling at a speed in excess of whatever speed it would take to fully penetrate your body?

That is, let's say you get hit in the torso by a bullet or an arrow and it travels all the way through and comes out the other side completely. Now let's say it took it traveling at 100 mph for that to happen. What would be the difference, then, for getting hit by the same arrow/bullet traveling at...1,000 mph? Does the excess heat generated when it travels through the body have any destructive effect? I presume that there isn't any more transfer of kinetic energy for a 1,000 mph projectile than a 100 mph projectile since they are both retaining that kinetic energy in completely penetrating your body.

If it goes fast enough, it just passes through your atoms without doing any actual damage. In fact, if you shoot a bullet fast enough it goes back into the gun.

 

[Prokofievian]

You had me until the practical example, which I don't think applies since your shifting the roles and a belly flop absorbs the surface tension of the water rather than fully penetrating it (which would be more akin to diving into the water and through a portal at the bottom).

Yeah surface tension kinda messes with the point, but the physics at play are the same. Just because the particles are being pushed apart by the projectile in both cases, doesn't mean that excess energy isn't being transferred to them. They're being pushed apart more violently. The particles are still interacting with each other.

But, to be clear, even when there is no drag in the body and the projectile is perfectly stable through the process of penetration, excess kinetic force is still transferred in some proportion to the amount of excess kinetic force? So, if we substitute out the body for a large piece of paper, does the hole left behind increase in size with the velocity at the point of penetration?

There is drag through the body. The only ''no drag'' situation is in a vacuum. The drag comes from the interaction of the projectile with the particles of the body, pushing them apart and deforming them. This drag is proportional to the impact force, which is proportional to the kinetic energy.

As for the paper example, I'm not sure if the hole would be larger.

 

[tonni]

You had me until the practical example, which I don't think applies since your shifting the roles and a belly flop absorbs the surface tension of the water rather than fully penetrating it (which would be more akin to diving into the water and through a portal at the bottom).

But, to be clear, even when there is no drag in the body and the projectile is perfectly stable through the process of penetration, excess kinetic force is still transferred in some proportion to the amount of excess kinetic force? So, if we substitute out the body for a large piece of paper, does the hole left behind increase in size with the velocity at the point of penetration?

Well, if it’s excess it’s excess. If the forward propulsion is much stronger than the impact, and no kinetic energy is “wasted” in the body, the hole won’t be any bigger. I’m assuming the hole is smaller than from a slower, less stable projectile.

The body has certain energy stored, kinetic and tension and what not. The bullet has to “overcome” that energy stored in the mass of the body with a certain amount of kinetic energy. Once that threshold is passed, the bullet can pass through without resistance. Excess energy will just be that, imo.

 

[tonni]

What’s the bullet made of?

 

[tonni]

I have a better question. Imagine a fat guy hooked up to electrodes connected to a battery. How many belly jiggles until that battery is 100%?

 

[tonni]

You had me until the practical example, which I don't think applies since your shifting the roles and a belly flop absorbs the surface tension of the water rather than fully penetrating it (which would be more akin to diving into the water and through a portal at the bottom).

But, to be clear, even when there is no drag in the body and the projectile is perfectly stable through the process of penetration, excess kinetic force is still transferred in some proportion to the amount of excess kinetic force? So, if we substitute out the body for a large piece of paper, does the hole left behind increase in size with the velocity at the point of penetration?

How can there be no drag in the body trotsky..l

 

[tonni]

They have different kinetic energies. Kinetic energy is 1/2 m v^2. You get that from the definition of kinetic energy, being the amount of work done to accelerate the object to the velocity v. When the bullet hits the object, if it penetrates or not, there is still a reaction from the body that it is penetrating which is proportional to the impact force, which is proportional to the kinetic energy. So yes, it causes a lot more damage. If you shot someone with a projectile that had enough energy, they'd vapourize. IIRC, Nasa has a gun to test what happens when little space particles strike satellites and space craft at orbital velocities (several miles per second), and the answer is the spacecraft often vapourizes.

Take this as a practical example: do a belly flop from 3 feet, and then do a belly flop from 9 feet. You are penetrating the water in both cases, but the water does a lot more damage to you when you jump from 9 feet than if you jump from 3 feet.

But wouldn’t the impact force be relatively small if the projectile is small enough? A human body would seem to be a lot less rigid of a surface in comparison to a spacecraft. It makes sense for a spacecraft.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Awwww yeah

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/macgruber-series-will-forte-ordered-peacock-1234730465/

MacGruber is officially back in action.

Peacock has issued an eight-episode order for a “MacGruber” series which will see Will Forte reprise the role he created while on “Saturday Night Live.” News of the pick up was announced at the NBCUniversal streamer’s TCA press day, and comes around eight months after the show was first put in development.

The half-hour series is an adaptation of the 2010 feature film of the same name, and will also be directed by the film’s helmer Jorma Taccone, of Lonely Island fame.

 

[Gregolian]

There is drag through the body. The only ''no drag'' situation is in a vacuum. The drag comes from the interaction of the projectile with the particles of the body, pushing them apart and deforming them. This drag is proportional to the impact force, which is proportional to the kinetic energy.

As for the paper example, I'm not sure if the hole would be larger.

In paper it wouldn't be.

PART of the reason the NATO countries moved from .30 caliber firearms during Vietnam to what is now referred to as 5.56 is yes, you can carry more of it than .30 cause it's lighter.

But the way it interacts with the body is different. A 30-06 will punch a whole in a person and leave a pretty tunnel like wound track. A 5.56 is so small and has so much force behind it when it hits a body it punches in and the force transfers to the body and leaves a MASSIVE temporary cavity because of a small projectile traveling as fast as it does hitting a body made up of lots of water and shit that transfers energy.

Plenty of the ballistic gel vids show the temporary cavity.

 

[Gregolian]

But wouldn’t the impact force be relatively small if the projectile is small enough? A human body would seem to be a lot less rigid of a surface in comparison to a spacecraft. It makes sense for a spacecraft.

Best example of what a high speed projectile like a 5.56 does when it hits a "body"

 

[tonni]

Best example of what a high speed projectile like a 5.56 does when it hits a "body"

I’m just wondering if there’s a “ceiling”, a cutoff point where the velocity doesn’t make much difference anymore. I’m thinking about it now and vaporization does seem the answer.