Social War Room Lounge Thread #325: PotWR Edition

[LangfordBarrow]

Theres a reason his poll numbers actually went up....

Do you mean lawfare was the reason he was indicted?

 

[Limbo Pete]

It’s more that people can’t give a shit about white collar crime but give a shit when they see a city burned down by people waving Mexican flags

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but the genesis of American political culture -from the very beginning- revolved around reactionary power entitlement. However you feel about them, protests (even violent ones) are very common in our history structurally speaking as a mechanism that resists power concentration. The assault on the Capitol was markedly different in that it actually threatened our peaceful transfer of power. And that goes to the issue at hand now, which is that corrosion of our checks and balances in furtherance of that reactionary power entitlement is creating a massive wobble in the structural wheels.

 

[Cajun]

Do you mean lawfare was the reason he was indicted?

I think lots of people saw the timing of everything and some of the stuff incredibly suspect. It actually helped him with all the indictments in terms of poll numbers

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I think lots of people saw the timing of everything and some of the stuff incredibly suspect. It actually helped him with all the indictments in terms of poll numbers

Without doing a search of the numbers I do think you're right and they did go up but I would attribute that more to Musk and others that gave him a big push. I think his opponents also played a big role in his getting elected. Biden took too long to step aside and just automatically giving the nomination to Harris was definitely a "Doh!" moment.

 

[Crazy Source]

Without doing a search of the numbers I do think you're right and they did go up but I would attribute that more to Musk and others that gave him a big push. I think his opponents also played a big role in his getting elected. Biden took too long to step aside and just automatically giving the nomination to Harris was definitely a "Doh!" moment.

Not to get sidetracked, but I think the combination of Harris being able to get the war chest and the terrible position the situation was for the DEMs they didn't want to put up and up and comer because the probable loss would damage them and hurt their chances in 2028.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Read the piece Donna Brazille wrote on it. You know this though....The DNC official, Donna Brazile, now a political analyst, wrote in Politico Magazine on Thursday that she discovered an August 2015 agreement between the national committee and Clinton's campaign and fundraising arm that gave Clinton "control (of) the party's finances. If the fight had been fair, one campaign would not have control of the party before the voters had decided which one they wanted to lead," Brazile wrote. "This was not a criminal act, but as I saw it, it compromised the party's integrity." CNN asked Senator Elizabeth Warren if Mrs Clinton's contest against Democratic rival Bernie Sanders was rigged, and she said: "Yes.". Not to mention the emails showing lack of support and strategy etc.

In the end Hillary won more votes though. The only form of cheating was Brazile giving Clinton some debate questions ahead of time but that's hardly decisive in a primary

Sometimes I think you do this just to make me look junk up...

If I didn't make you, you would never look it up on your own.

I think Romney was wrong but if he's doing what he believes is right then I'm okay with it.

Sure but your party isn't, he and others like him got pushed out for not being loyal to Trump.

You failed to see anything about your own side. Ignore things and then bring up other points. I don't mind a good back and forth at times but we've already gone round and round over the election for hours.

I criticize my "side" all the time, I just don't agree with your critique here and think you're woefully misguided.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Not to get sidetracked, but I think the combination of Harris being able to get the war chest and the terrible position the situation was for the DEMs they didn't want to put up and up and comer because the probable loss would damage them and hurt their chances in 2028.

It was probably due to the war chest more than anything. Harris is too far left, among her other image problems, to woo the moderate Republican vote. As soon as they named her I knew it was going to be a risk.

 

[Cajun]

In the end Hillary won more votes though. The only form of cheating was Brazile giving Clinton some debate questions ahead of time but that's hardly decisive in a primary

If I didn't make you, you would never look it up on your own.

Sure but your party isn't, he and others like him got pushed out for not being loyal to Trump.

I criticize my "side" all the time, I just don't agree with your critique here and think you're woefully misguided.

You have control of the funding before you even win the nomination 15 months ahead of time you tend to win. But it's information we both know. Nothing surprising here there's been a million threads covering the topics. The party didnt went Trump and I didnt either haha. I was a DeSantis guy. But when he got the nomination it was hard to stop him. The leadership will be happy when hes gone imo.

No use continuing the last part then. I made my points on Biden, his health, clinton/Bernie. Nothing else to say on the matter.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Really all of it. Just in general, no one looks at “crime” equally.

Trump was also under investigation for stealing classified documents and for Jan 6th, those aren't exactly white collar crimes. Predictably he dismissed those investigations and not a peep from the party or the base. He also pardoned all Jan 6th convicts who weren't convicted of white collar crimes.

The more obvious explanation is that MAGA populists, like radical leftists, don't believe in rule of law and see the courts not as a neutral arbiter but as a partisan tool to be used against your enemies when possible and to be undermined when it tries to check their power

 

[Islam Imamate]

You have control of the funding before you even win the nomination 15 months ahead of time you tend to win.

She was a fundraiser for the party while Bernie only registered as a Dem to run in the primary, makes sense she'd be influential. Not that I like that fact but if Bernie had won more votes he would've won but he didn't.

But it's information we both know. Nothing surprising here there's been a million threads covering the topics. The party didnt went Trump and I didnt either haha. I was a DeSantis guy. But when he got the nomination it was hard to stop him. The leadership will be happy when hes gone imo.

Right and despite Trumps obvious moral failings you still voted for him which tells me you're not that turned off by extreme candidates given you voted for one.

No use continuing the last part then. I made my points on Biden, his health, clinton/Bernie. Nothing else to say on the matter.

Did you read Tapper's book about Biden?

 

[Cajun]

It was probably due to the war chest more than anything. Harris is too far left, among her other image problems, to woo the moderate Republican vote. As soon as they named her I knew it was going to be a risk.

Me too. Its was a tough spot though they were put into though. In hindsight maybe run a quick primary. Outside of that they had to let her run

 

[Crazy Source]

It was probably due to the war chest more than anything. Harris is too far left, among her other image problems, to woo the moderate Republican vote. As soon as they named her I knew it was going to be a risk.

Tell me some issues where you think she was too far left.

 

[Cajun]

She was a fundraiser for the party while Bernie only registered as a Dem to run in the primary, makes sense she'd be influential. Not that I like that fact but if Bernie had won more votes he would've won but he didn't.

Right and despite Trumps obvious moral failings you still voted for him which tells me you're not that turned off by extreme candidates given you voted for one.

Did you read Tapper's book about Biden?

Yes but that is not done until the primary is concluded so that you have the people choose and a level playing field. Its why Warren even said it was rigged.

Just watched some of his interviews and read excerpts. Its what most knew. The stuff about his inner circle, failure to recognize familiar faces etc. The cancer thing is new but had to be known before just now.

Me and half the country bud including more minorities since RR I believe.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but the genesis of American political culture -from the very beginning- revolved around reactionary power entitlement. However you feel about them, protests (even violent ones) are very common in our history structurally speaking as a mechanism that resists power concentration. The assault on the Capitol was markedly different in that it actually threatened our peaceful transfer of power. And that goes to the issue at hand now, which is that corrosion of our checks and balances in furtherance of that reactionary power entitlement is creating a massive wobble in the structural wheels.

I have stressed this for years. No one gives a shit about Jan 6.

Literally the election in November proved that.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think lots of people saw the timing of everything and some of the stuff incredibly suspect. It actually helped him with all the indictments in terms of poll numbers

Right but that goes to show that MAGA is quite accepting of criminality as long as the criminals are on their side.

Tell me some issues where you think she was too far left.

The stuff about going after price gouging and the unrealized gains taxes were concessions to left wing populists and imo bad policy.

Of course she was league's better than Trump but if you ask right wingers who don't have total brain rot that's what they're likely to point to.

 

[panamaican]

He's a leftwinger

That would be a very simplistic assessment of what it said.

1) Opposes authoritarianism, ideological coercion, and moral hypocrisy. <--- if that's left wing, I'm fine with that. I don't think anyone should want to be the opposite.

2) Advocates civil liberties, economic realism, and evidence-based governance. <--- if that's left wing, I'm fine with that too. I don't think anyone should want to be the opposite.

3) Expresses nuance about religion, welfare systems, and foreign policy. <--- if that's left wing, I'm fine with that. I don't think anyone should want to be the opposite.

See, if the claim is that my positions are left-wing then the right wing would be authoritarian, hypocritical, oppositional to civil liberties, economic realism, evidence based-governance and fail to have any nuance on religion, welfare or foreign policy. That's not something anyone should be proud of being.

Here's where you continue to fuck this up. I'm a fiscal conservative, social liberal. Always have been. I'm not a "right-winger" and, these days, I'm not a Republican. The majority of government positions that maximize individual freedoms are "socially liberal". It's where the entire idea of equal rights comes from, the rejection of government as the arbitrator of what people should do in their personal lives.

But this is a nuance that I don't most of you to grasp because I doubt what was written with any sense of understanding.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yes but that is not done until the primary is concluded so that you have the people choose and a level playing field. Its why Warren even said it was rigged.

No, there are primaries and caucuses throughout and Bernie clearly lost.

Just watched some of his interviews and read excerpts. Its what most knew. The stuff about his inner circle, failure to recognize familiar faces etc. The cancer thing is new but had to be known before just now.

So no you didn't read the book?

Me and half the country bud including more minorities since RR I believe.

Once again Trump won less than half the popular vote, let's not rewrite history now.

 

[Cajun]

Right but that goes to show that MAGA is quite accepting of criminality as long as the criminals are on their side.

You and I already hashed this out over 2 days....not interested in a revisit bud.

 

[Cajun]

No, there are primaries and caucuses throughout and Bernie clearly lost.

Control of the party money? No...

So no you didn't read the book?

Did I say I did?

Once again Trump won less than half the popular vote, let's not rewrite history now.

OK thanks.... 49.9% is basically half... and the highest except Biden 2020 imo. And most minority since RR. So who voted for him even changed.

 

[panamaican]

Wouldn’t you at least say that those positions are historically liberal or left spectrum positions?

I don’t think many republicans are out there saying to tax the rich, break up corporations and boost the EPA.

Anti-establishment is and always has been a liberal position (not Democrat/Republican -- the political parties have changed ideologies many times over the years). The primary differentiator between the 2 political spectrums has always been about the role of government in private lives.

@Islam Imamate is wrong about the right being anti-establishment. They're not. The modern right is very pro-establishment. They are very aggressive about taking government institutions and using them to implement a specific social order. Just because they have rejected how the Democrats used those institutions doesn't mean that they have rejected the use of the institutions themselves.

There are very few true anti-establishment people out there in the modern era. It's just different opinions on how to leverage government, not any true desire to leverage less of it.