Wal-Mart and Subsidies

[kpt018]

Let companies compete for labor on the global market without wage floors AND society can provide a social safety net.

So, you want a dramatic increase in safety net spending (the number of people that would need assistance would increase and so would the amount of assistance since their wages are lower) so that rich guys can get richer? This makes zero sense.

Exhibit A of leftism? Detroit. You guys/gals must be proud.

This is totally idiotic and clearly biased. Aside from the fact that there are good politicians and bad ones on both sides, there are cities that are well run and successful, lead by Democrats.

 

[OldGoat]

Are you intentionally ignoring the content of the post?

What content? The fact that not all labor is equivalent ought to be obvious. The reason skilled and in demand people get raises is because there is a relative shortage of supply relative to demand. The reason minimum wage people are paid minimum wage is because they are mandated to be paid more than their economic worth. I wouldn't give someone a raise to push a broom if the minimum wage was $10/hr. They are already $6.14/hr overpaid.

 

[OldGoat]

So, you want a dramatic increase in safety net spending (the number of people that would need assistance would increase and so would the amount of assistance since their wages are lower) so that rich guys can get richer? This makes zero sense.



This is totally idiotic and clearly biased. Aside from the fact that there are good politicians and bad ones on both sides, there are cities that are well run and successful, lead by Democrats.

What? If you had some wage instead of zero wage you would need less government assistance. Please tell me you are not the product of an inner city school.

 

[afrdzak]

You leftists sure are fascinated with the penis. Projection much?

As long as these dumb threads pop up 3/week rehashing the same ol meme of "living wage" and "gubmint subsidies" for corporations I'll have to continue to cut and paste the rebuttals.

Funny that you leftists are proud that the remainder of low wage jobs are service industry or illegally filled by illegal immigrants who work for less than minimum wage and under exploitative conditions. How do you reconcile that with your core beliefs when you go to the grocery store or buy clothing? You enjoy the product of exploitation?

What world do you live in? Most people aren't happy with slave wages. I don't know how you are under the impression that "leftists" want illegal immigrants to work for less than minimum wage when that runs completely contrary to what we're saying! You, however, have expressed many times over that this is a belief you are fine with. If you want to abolish the minimum wage, surely you don't mind if people are being paid below it. By your own definition, are you "leftist"?

I am completely against that practice, and would like to see legal action against those who employ in such a method. That's my stance. The stance on the right is to see legal action against the employed for taking the position and let the employer off Scott-Free.....you know, the standard demonization of the poor angle.

 

[OldGoat]

What world do you live in? Most people aren't happy with slave wages. I don't know how you are under the impression that "leftists" want illegal immigrants to work for less than minimum wage when that runs completely contrary to what we're saying! You, however, have expressed many times over that this is a belief you are fine with. If you want to abolish the minimum wage, surely you don't mind if people are being paid below it. By your own definition, are you "leftist"?

I am completely against that practice, and would like to see legal action against those who employ in such a method. That's my stance. The stance on the right is to see legal action against the employed for taking the position and let the employer off Scott-Free.....you know, the standard demonization of the poor angle.

How about pay people a market value wage? If there is a shortfall in life necessities and society is producing a surplus redistribute some of it? Simple.

But no... you guys don't like to look at a complex world and it's by design. Left wing big state politicians want control and power. You guys don't want to solve problems.

 

[kpt018]

If I hated poor people why would I want more spending on lifelong education, mental health treatment, more equitable school spending, increased nutritional assistance for children, vocational training for the unemployed, etc? You are just using stupid rhetoric because you cannot counter that increasing employment and productivity in America is more important than left wing vote buying.

What are you talking about? Again, you seemingly have no idea what left wing positions even are. Not one left leaning position I know of or have read would dispute that we want to increase employment. That's just another strawman. And US workers are already extremely productive, so you just dropped a line that you think sounds good but is meaningless. And you can support some things that help the poor and support some that hurt them, OK.

Speaking of which, why do you hate foreigners? I find it despicable that the left are perfectly fine with immigrants coming to the US to toil in exploitative conditions and are deliberately engineering the exodus of American manufacturing to countries that treat workers very poorly in order to buy votes from a deliberately uneducated low class. Why do you hate the Mexicans and Chinese poor?

Another strawman, jeez, this is embarrassing. No one who is sane is ok with immigrants being exploited, wtf man?

You have to at least have an honest discussion man.

 

[afrdzak]

What content? The fact that not all labor is equivalent ought to be obvious. The reason skilled and in demand people get raises is because there is a relative shortage of supply relative to demand. The reason minimum wage people are paid minimum wage is because they are mandated to be paid more than their economic worth. I wouldn't give someone a raise to push a broom if the minimum wage was $10/hr. They are already $6.14/hr overpaid.

So the gov't employees who get their annual cost of living increases is due to the fact that they are so skilled and in such high demand?

Ever been to a DMV?

 

[OldGoat]

What are you talking about? Again, you seemingly have no idea what left wing positions even are. Not one left leaning position I know of or have read would dispute that we want to increase employment. That's just another strawman. And US workers are already extremely productive, so you just dropped a line that you think sounds good but is meaningless. And you can support some things that help the poor and support some that hurt them, OK.



Another strawman, jeez, this is embarrassing. No one who is sane is ok with immigrants being exploited, wtf man?

You have to at least have an honest discussion man.

Our government condones and in some cases encourages the exploitation of immigrants. So is our government insane?

 

[OldGoat]

So the gov't employees who get their annual cost of living increases is due to the fact that they are so skilled and in such high demand?

Ever been to a DMV?

Lol. Of course gubmint work isn't driven by market forces. They have a monopoly and many corrupt arms that can penalize and punish. We are trying to talk about relatively free market concepts.

 

[kpt018]

What? If you had some wage instead of zero wage you would need less government assistance. Please tell me you are not the product of an inner city school.

Idiot, people who make the MW now would make less or be simply replaced by lower wage workers. If the employer could pay them less, they would. It would probably drag down the people making slightly more too.

 

[kpt018]

Our government condones and in some cases encourages the exploitation of immigrants. So is our government insane?

Way off topic, but what specifically are you talking about?

 

[jmadtx]

lol at costco cashiers making 49k

 

[OldGoat]

Idiot, people who make the MW now would make less or be simply replaced by lower wage workers. If the employer could pay them less, they would. It would probably drag down the people making slightly more too.

Learn 2 math. It's not hard.

More people would be hired because companies could actually pay them their true value. So the guy who can't spell his name and has to wear velcro sneakers, he's getting $2.50/hr. Lets say his current gubmint benefits are equal to $4.50/hr. Now he only needs $2.00/hr from the gubmint.

Society gains more productivity and velcro shoes gets to become integrated into the productive side of society instead of dwelling in the 47%. Society also is paying less! The nation is sending less money to a strategic competitor. Win-win-win-win.

Vs.

Crackhead left who want to pay people to live counterproductively and than wonder why A) jobs go overseas, B) we have a huge illiterate, innumerate, destructive underclass, and C) continuously need to throw more money at a growing problem. War on poverty is like the war on drugs. But worse.

 

[OldGoat]

Way off topic, but what specifically are you talking about?

Prohibition of the enforcement of our laws regarding immigration is a good start.

 

[afrdzak]

Lol. Of course gubmint work isn't driven by market forces. They have a monopoly and many corrupt arms that can penalize and punish. We are trying to talk about relatively free market concepts.

Here's the kicker. Given that we know other countries are paying well below our minimum wage...and you want to "compete" with them on a wage-scale (nevermind that our cost of living/safety regulations/taxation is much higher than in rural India/China), your proposal of having no wage floor will result in even more welfare as people in the US will be working at slave wages....as $1 is better than $0.

It's crazy talk. All things being equal, I might get on board with you. But it's not the case. All things aren't equal across countries...but you are trying to control only one variable here...wages. Unless you are also proposing that we abolish many regulations, drive down wages, have the employees sleep on the factory floor (for a small fee, of course), and allow 5 year-olds to make shoes. Then we can truly "compete" globally.

 

[OldGoat]

Here's the kicker. Given that we know other countries are paying well below our minimum wage...and you want to "compete" with them on a wage-scale (nevermind that our cost of living/safety regulations/taxation is much higher than in rural India/China), your proposal of having no wage floor will result in even more welfare as people in the US will be working at slave wages....as $1 is better than $0.

It's crazy talk. All things being equal, I might get on board with you. But it's not the case. All things aren't equal across countries...but you are trying to control only one variable here...wages. Unless you are also proposing that we abolish many regulations, drive down wages, have the employees sleep on the factory floor (for a small fee, of course), and allow 5 year-olds to make shoes. Then we can truly "compete" globally.

No. Less people on less welfare is a net gain, plus those people gain skills, plus our nation gets increased productivity. Of course I am not for child labor or environmental degradation and perhaps some form of tariffs on products that are known to be produced that way can be implemented.

Anyways, issues like minimum wage and drug laws are always framed in emotional language to appeal to the hordes so it's not like the status quo is likely to change much.

 

[kpt018]

Learn 2 math. It's not hard.

More people would be hired because companies could actually pay them their true value. So the guy who can't spell his name and has to wear velcro sneakers, he's getting $2.50/hr. Lets say his current gubmint benefits are equal to $4.50/hr. Now he only needs $2.00/hr from the gubmint.

So, for this example, you're implying someone needs $4.5/hour total, whether it's in pay or in welfare. Are you really arguing that when an employer pays this person less it results in less welfare? If the MW was $4.5/hour, they would need $0/hour in welfare. But if they made $2/hour, they would need $2.50 in welfare, right?

The point you continue to miss is that people who are working would be paid less. The example ignores a bunch of variables and is pretty horrible, anyway.

 

[OldGoat]

So, for this example, you're implying someone needs $4.5/hour total, whether it's in pay or in welfare. Are you really arguing that when an employer pays this person less it results in less welfare? If the MW was $4.5/hour, they would need $0/hour in welfare. But if they made $2/hour, they would need $2.50 in welfare, right?

The point you continue to miss is that people who are working would be paid less. The example ignores a bunch of variables and is pretty horrible, anyway.

Full employment is the better option and you get that when you can pay people what they are worth.

You on the left just don't understand what it means to be in a global economy. This isn't 1950 or 1960. Other countries have rebuilt from WWII and former communist block countries are industrialized and implementing capitalistic principles. We still have comparative advantage but it is not as overwhelming as it once was.

At this point in time our left side of the bell curve is no longer superior to some other nation's right side of the bell curve. We have to compete globally or just accept the fact we will have a perpetual destructive underclass.

 

[ChainFlow]

Of course he's ignoring the depressive effect on wages across the board. That's the real goal you aren't supposed to see yet.

 

[kpt018]

Full employment is the better option and you get that when you can pay people what they are worth.

Lol, so the problem with our economy is that low wage workers who currently live in poverty get paid too much. This is grand.

You on the left just don't understand what it means to be in a global economy. This isn't 1950 or 1960. Other countries have rebuilt from WWII and former communist block countries are industrialized and implementing capitalistic principles. We still have comparative advantage but it is not as overwhelming as it once was.

Stop acting like political ideology is representative of business acumen. You have to be trolling at this point.

At this point in time our left side of the bell curve is no longer superior to some other nation's right side of the bell curve.

WTF are you talking about? What is the bell curve measuring?

We have to compete globally or just accept the fact we will have a perpetual destructive underclass.

This is a meaningless statement. Your proposal to eliminate the MW would actually create a destructive situation.