Wal-Mart and Subsidies

[Uchi Mata]

I've asked this before in these threads, but no one has ever really explained it to me.

If Walmart doubles what they pay their workers, does everyone double what they pay theirs?

For example, let's assume..

Walmart Employee makes $8/hr
Hospital Tech makes $10/hr
EMT makes $12/hr
Corrections Officer makes $16/hr
Nurse makes $35/hr

So, if suddenly clerks are making as much money as C.O.'s in this chain.. why the fuck would anyone be a C.O.? Why wouldn't people just work at Walmart?

Now.. if everyones wage doubles, tons of companies are going to lose money. Lots of places are struggling, and now they have to pay workers double? Can private ambulance companies afford to pay an EMT $24/hr? Holy shit, I doubt it. Can prisons afford to pay C.O.'s $32/hr? Wow. Hospitals will start paying nurses $130k a year...?

I just don't understand.. whats the chain reaction that happens if they do this?

If literally everyone does it for all employees, we get mass inflation and nothing changes in terms of relative levels of income (other than debt becoming less of an issue for many, as it tends to be fixed cost not subject to inflation adjustments). If just the bottom of the labor market gets raises, there is some inflation, corporations make less money, and people pay somewhat more for goods and services provided by the people at the bottom. The bottom experiences a huge rise in real standard of living, everyone else experiences some level of decrease (unless you're so rich that your standard of living is largely disconnected from everyday cost of living).

 

[OldGoat]

Extreme increases to the MW do not make sense. That have too dramatic an impact on business and the MW is to establish a minimum standard of living for workers. That does not mean they should make the equivalent of college educated professionals.

As you pointed out, there would be problems if we made it $20/hour or something as dramatic.

A modest increase, however, is in order. I would like to see annual adjustments tied in to an appropriate index so that we don't end up in the situation we are in now - an outdated MW that pays unlivable wages. If a person is willing and able to work full time, they should be able to eat and pay rent (very different from say owning a house and driving a decent car, like middle class folks).

The USA does not exist in a vacuum. Unless wages go up world wide this is a bad idea.

 

[__Big_D__]

You are aware that there are times where raising prices leads to lower profits right? WM has a bunch of accountants and marketers who get payed a lot of money to find the optimal price point for their products. It's naive to think that some blogger at Slate knows more about what WM's prices should be to maximize revenue than these guys do.

Ben, you've gone off the deep end buddy. This video was just meant to demonstrate that if sales remained the same, the average increase in prices necessary to make up for the increase in wages to its employees would be 1.4%. Again, at no point was this video meant to be taken as a business plan by WM... Not sure why you keep suggesting it is

 

[ben236]

Ben, you've gone off the deep end buddy. This video was just meant to demonstrate that if sales remained the same, the average increase in prices necessary to make up for the increase in wages to its employees would be 1.4%. Again, at no point was this video meant to be taken as a business plan by WM... Not sure why you keep suggesting it is

They literally said WM could raise prices by 1.4% if they wanted to pass those costs onto the consumer. They sounded pretty serious about it to me.

 

[__Big_D__]

They literally said WM could raise prices by 1.4% if they wanted to pass those costs onto the consumer. They sounded pretty serious about it to me.

Yes, the average price increase, assuming current sales, would literally be 1.4%

Pretty straight forward bud

 

[ben236]

Yes, the average price increase, assuming current sales, would literally be 1.4%

Pretty straight forward bud

Yes... And the problem with this video is that they assume current sales, when they shouldn't.

 

[__Big_D__]

Yes... And the problem with this video is that they assume current sales, when they shouldn't.

Lol. Wtf do you expect them to calculate? Imaginary sales?

 

[afrdzak]

The USA does not exist in a vacuum. Unless wages go up world wide this is a bad idea.

Funny, how people get raises all of the time without any consideration to what the guy in Madagascar is making to do the same job.

Many companies and gov't positions (short of pay freezes in down economies) also offer annual cost of living increases. These are not tied to Iranian wages.

Or is it only a bad idea when we're talking about minimum wage increases? Like how they say raises in the minimum wage are disastrous every, single time....yet in reality, they really aren't? As any historical empirical evidence will support.

It's almost as if many people fully support anyone but minimum wage workers getting pay increases. It's a pretty odd stance considering the history. Wages have been increasing for everyone except minimum wage workers. No one seems to mind. But the moment someone suggests that maybe those minimum wage workers should also see an increase, the market will fall and there will be disastrous repercussions because of it....despite there never being an instance where this has occurred. Odd indeed.

 

[ben236]

Lol. Wtf do you expect them to calculate? Imaginary sales?

I think they should have abandoned the point altogether.

 

[__Big_D__]

I think they should have abandoned the point altogether.

Eh, I think it's a fair stab at the issue.

 

[kpt018]

The USA does not exist in a vacuum. Unless wages go up world wide this is a bad idea.

No it isn't and we've been down this road before. The majority of MW jobs are service jobs and they aren't going anywhere. Besides, moderate increases have been show to have no discernible effect on unemployment. But it has a big impact on each individual ($8/hour vs $10/hour is a big deal to someone making a low wage).

I know, I know, you think employers should be able to pay people $1/hour so the US can compete globally (another suck off to the rich at the expense of workers). No need to rehash it.

 

[kpt018]

Funny, how people get raises all of the time without any consideration to what the guy in Madagascar is making to do the same job.

Many companies and gov't positions (short of pay freezes in down economies) also offer annual cost of living increases. These are not tied to Iranian wages.

Or is it only a bad idea when we're talking about minimum wage increases? Like how they say raises in the minimum wage are disastrous every, single time....yet in reality, they really aren't? As any historical empirical evidence will support.

It's almost as if many people fully support anyone but minimum wage workers getting pay increases. It's a pretty odd stance considering the history. Wages have been increasing for everyone except minimum wage workers. No one seems to mind. But the moment someone suggests that maybe those minimum wage workers should also see an increase, the market will fall and there will be disastrous repercussions because of it....despite there never being an instance where this has occurred. Odd indeed.

I'm not kidding, Old Goat has suggested in other threads that we eliminate the MW. The reasoning is so that businesses can bring back manufacturing jobs to the US, which of course would happen if they companies could hire at say $1/hour. The obvious thing that he is missing is that employees do not benefit at all and would actually be hurt really badly.

Old Goat supporting the rich at the expense of the poor, go figure.

 

[afrdzak]

I'm not kidding, Old Goat has suggested in other threads that we eliminate the MW. The reasoning is so that businesses can bring back manufacturing jobs to the US, which of course would happen if they companies could hire at say $1/hour. The obvious thing that he is missing is that employees do not benefit at all and would actually be hurt really badly.

Old Goat supporting the rich at the expense of the poor, go figure.

Not just Old Goat, though. There's a huge piece of the populace that feels as though poor people need to suffer more. I'll never understand why so many people demonize the poor. I guess it feels good to shit on people less fortunate and throw them by the wayside when you can't do it to those above you on the socioeconomic scale.

 

[kpt018]

Not just Old Goat, though. There's a huge piece of the populace that feels as though poor people need to suffer more. I'll never understand why so many people demonize the poor. I guess it feels good to shit on people less fortunate and throw them by the wayside when you can't do it to those above you on the socioeconomic scale.

True and there are lots of reasons. Affinity for the rich (all geniuses and some are god-like), misinformation about the poor, propaganda, racism, etc..

Note, Republicans never seem to use poor white southerners as an examples of "takers". One thing is for sure, they aren't even trying to keep their a secret. What amazes me, though, is that people actually fall for the idea that taking things away that help the poor are actually helping the poor. Unless you think things like food and healthcare are overrated.

 

[OldGoat]

No it isn't and we've been down this road before. The majority of MW jobs are service jobs and they aren't going anywhere. Besides, moderate increases have been show to have no discernible effect on unemployment. But it has a big impact on each individual ($8/hour vs $10/hour is a big deal to someone making a low wage).

I know, I know, you think employers should be able to pay people $1/hour so the US can compete globally (another suck off to the rich at the expense of workers). No need to rehash it.

You leftists sure are fascinated with the penis. Projection much?

As long as these dumb threads pop up 3/week rehashing the same ol meme of "living wage" and "gubmint subsidies" for corporations I'll have to continue to cut and paste the rebuttals.

Funny that you leftists are proud that the remainder of low wage jobs are service industry or illegally filled by illegal immigrants who work for less than minimum wage and under exploitative conditions. How do you reconcile that with your core beliefs when you go to the grocery store or buy clothing? You enjoy the product of exploitation?

 

[OldGoat]

I'm not kidding, Old Goat has suggested in other threads that we eliminate the MW. The reasoning is so that businesses can bring back manufacturing jobs to the US, which of course would happen if they companies could hire at say $1/hour. The obvious thing that he is missing is that employees do not benefit at all and would actually be hurt really badly.

Old Goat supporting the rich at the expense of the poor, go figure.

Not just Old Goat, though. There's a huge piece of the populace that feels as though poor people need to suffer more. I'll never understand why so many people demonize the poor. I guess it feels good to shit on people less fortunate and throw them by the wayside when you can't do it to those above you on the socioeconomic scale.

You clowns cherry pick sentences and think that's the full argument. Your whole philosophy is to enable the political class to buy power at the expense of global competitiveness. That is more dangerous than anything Burger World can do.

Let companies compete for labor on the global market without wage floors AND society can provide a social safety net.

Benefits? Increased productivity. Increased beneficial habit and skill acquisition. Decreased trade deficits. Etc.

Costs? The leftist worldview of propagating a multi-generational underclass of stupid, illiterate, and shiftless people to buy votes is discredited.

Exhibit A of leftism? Detroit. You guys/gals must be proud.

 

[kpt018]

You leftists sure are fascinated with the penis. Projection much?

You're not off to a good start.

As long as these dumb threads pop up 3/week rehashing the same ol meme of "living wage" and "gubmint subsidies" for corporations I'll have to continue to cut and paste the rebuttals.

Oh, I'm not stopping you. I'm a bit sick of the topic myself, but I'm just pointing out how ludicrous your position is. We get it, you love rich business owners and hate poor people.

Funny that you leftists are proud that the remainder of low wage jobs are service industry or illegally filled by illegal immigrants who work for less than minimum wage and under exploitative conditions.

No one is proud of that, nice strawman. I just don't think there's a benefit to anyone other than rich factory owners when we allow them to pay extreme poverty wages.

How do you reconcile that with your core beliefs when you go to the grocery store or buy clothing? You enjoy the product of exploitation?

The question is laughable given how far off the mark you are about liberal beliefs. When you actually understand them, you will ask a better question, I hope.

 

[OldGoat]

Funny, how people get raises all of the time without any consideration to what the guy in Madagascar is making to do the same job.

Many companies and gov't positions (short of pay freezes in down economies) also offer annual cost of living increases. These are not tied to Iranian wages.

Or is it only a bad idea when we're talking about minimum wage increases? Like how they say raises in the minimum wage are disastrous every, single time....yet in reality, they really aren't? As any historical empirical evidence will support.

It's almost as if many people fully support anyone but minimum wage workers getting pay increases. It's a pretty odd stance considering the history. Wages have been increasing for everyone except minimum wage workers. No one seems to mind. But the moment someone suggests that maybe those minimum wage workers should also see an increase, the market will fall and there will be disastrous repercussions because of it....despite there never being an instance where this has occurred. Odd indeed.

Global prices do have an impact on American wages. You are daft to think otherwise. Go the store and see how much stuff is made in China or overseas. Why? Wages.

 

[afrdzak]

Global prices do have an impact on American wages. You are daft to think otherwise. Go the store and see how much stuff is made in China or overseas. Why? Wages.

Are you intentionally ignoring the content of the post?

 

[OldGoat]

You're not off to a good start.



Oh, I'm not stopping you. I'm a bit sick of the topic myself, but I'm just pointing out how ludicrous your position is. We get it, you love rich business owners and hate poor people.



No one is proud of that, nice strawman. I just don't think there's a benefit to anyone other than rich factory owners when we allow them to pay extreme poverty wages.



The question is laughable given how far off the mark you are about liberal beliefs. When you actually understand them, you will ask a better question, I hope.

If I hated poor people why would I want more spending on lifelong education, mental health treatment, more equitable school spending, increased nutritional assistance for children, vocational training for the unemployed, etc? You are just using stupid rhetoric because you cannot counter that increasing employment and productivity in America is more important than left wing vote buying.

Speaking of which, why do you hate foreigners? I find it despicable that the left are perfectly fine with immigrants coming to the US to toil in exploitative conditions and are deliberately engineering the exodus of American manufacturing to countries that treat workers very poorly in order to buy votes from a deliberately uneducated low class. Why do you hate the Mexicans and Chinese poor?