Wachowski Siblings Become Wachowski Sisters

[lakersfan45]

good for them, i dont care what gender they are. i'm gonna use this to tell a v for vendetta story.

my friends and i got super duper high before we went into the theater to see the movie. we go into the movie and the place is packed, of course we are late because we smoked too much. theres only one row that accommodates all four of us so we squeeze into that row. we hear the people in that row and the row behind us grunting and all upset. i get it we smell like smoke and come into the movie a few minutes in squeezing into the row all slow and stupid like, of course they are upset. we have bags of different chips from one of those big assorted packs like funyuns and cheetos. we open them and begin to eat them and we realize how loud those bags are at the theater. more grunting and upset people around us. who cares, we are high and are going to continue enjoying our snacks. so we are watching the movie and about every 5 or 10 minutes we keep looking at eachother like what the hell is going on why cant we follow this movie. this must be the most convoluted complex movie we have all ever seen, or maybe we are just that high. then about 40 minutes later the movie inexplicably ends. thats when it dawned on us. we walked into the wrong showing/screen.

 

[Guestx]

How do you figure? Last time I checked, these people are having red carpets laid out for them, and ridicule towards them is met with extreme hostility. I mean yeah, some nobodies on twitter and forums may talk some shit, but what do they care?

These aren't everyday people, who have to swipe in at the factory everyday and deal with regular folks who aren't obliged to fall in line with this SJW agenda. These are Hollywood elites. Their lives are not affected in the least. They will be celebrated for it. In their position, coming out as a transgender is not courageous at all. In fact, one could argue it could be quite beneficial.

Mmm. . . I dunno man. For one, this is going to ratchet up the paparazzi harassment tenfold. Beyond that, it's not like people who work in Hollywood are in some locked-away community that they never leave. They still have to make at least occasional voyages into the wider world, and the wider world has a way of getting IN as well. You talk about public criticism like it means nothing, but it seems clear to me that people can actually be wounded pretty badly by overwhelming negative sentiment. Sure, some people are thicker skinned than others, but the simple fact is that it sucks to be treated like shit by your fellow human beings.

 

[StannisTheMannis]

they should change their names to Tomahawk sisters.

 

[minute bull]

I don't think so at all. The simple fact is that courage and heroism are not synonymous. Heroism always requires courage, but not every courageous act is heroic. To say otherwise, quite frankly, is a misunderstanding of the language.

OH YOU WANNA GET INTO PEOPLE'S LEXICONS AND SYNTAX WELL ALLOW ME TO RETORT

You're right....

With the caveat being your command of language is about as valid as another's unless they're flat-out using words incorrectly. This is not a case of someone pointing at the color green and calling it "pony." Similar words can be used interchangeably because how we interpret words is not absolute amongst us all. Even if you quibble with what they say, you know what they mean. To discount intention for the blind adherence of "what words means" is a product of confusion and/or, in your case bias. You're not confused -- you simply don't like hero being used with unconventional conventions. To me that amounts to splitting hairs, not that there's anything wrong with that.

You seem to think heroes require an audience and there are two rebuttals to that: one can be a hero to oneself and if someone thinks someone a hero who's to say that person is wrong? And, secondly, your terms of heroism are open to much debate. While you may think Lilly Wachowski does what she does only for herself, it can be argued she's made herself a lightning rod for insults, shaming, and harsh criticism in order to dispel fear and anxiety of other people who walk a similar path. Furthermore, you cannot be the sole arbiter of what constitutes this or that word.

Call it whatever you like. So can everyone else.

 

[Kick Strickland]

I have mixed emotions about it, honestly. It's definitely weird and crazy. But on the other hand it's not really hurting anybody either.

I guess the question for me is this: If one day I woke up and really, truly, emphatically felt like I was a woman trapped in a man's body, would I feel compelled to do the same thing . . . to fix the error, so to speak? Maybe. But I for damn sure don't feel that way, so it's hard for me to relate.

I just get the feeling for whatever agenda, this transgender shit is being pushed on the populace all of a sudden, and we keep hearing about people doing it and how it's normal and whatnot. That will in turn get more and more impressionable minded people deciding to do that, and I for one don't think it's right. I don't hate transgenders and wouldn't bash them or anything. But at the same time, I don't like the way they're putting it out there like it's no big deal and that it's common or something. It's not common. But for young simple minded people, it WILL become more and more common now. Because people have seen famous celebrities doing it and heard all this talk about it, and they'll figure "so why not?" This whole thing seems to have come out of fucking left field all of a sudden and now it's front page headlines and they're making out like it's a whole sub-culture of people out there that are transgenders, and I call bullshit on that. But in a few years, there WILL be a subculture of them. And it's fucked up imo. Something about this is very, very fucked up.

 

[Mike]

What the FUCK is going on in Hollywood?! I mean, fuck. I'll go ahead and say it, this shit isn't courageous or heroic. I'm sorry but they're freaks. And feeble minded to jump on the "transgender is normal and awesome" train that seems to be running lately. Shit ain't normal, shit ain't cool, and shit should not be looked up to or applauded. Let alone called fucking "heroic." For fucks sake people, wake up. This shit is crazy.

Just because you're not trans and can't be bothered to look into any information about it doesn't mean they're freaks.

People are so quick to judge anything and everything they don't understand.

 

[minute bull]

I just get the feeling for whatever agenda, this transgender shit is being pushed on the populace all of a sudden, and we keep hearing about people doing it and how it's normal and whatnot. That will in turn get more and more impressionable minded people deciding to do that, and I for one don't think it's right. I don't hate transgenders and wouldn't bash them or anything. But at the same time, I don't like the way they're putting it out there like it's no big deal and that it's common or something. It's not common. But for young simple minded people, it WILL become more and more common now. Because people have seen famous celebrities doing it and heard all this talk about it, and they'll figure "so why not?" This whole thing seems to have come out of fucking left field all of a sudden and now it's front page headlines and they're making out like it's a whole sub-culture of people out there that are transgenders, and I call bullshit on that. But in a few years, there WILL be a subculture of them. And it's fucked up imo. Something about this is very, very fucked up.

If you were talking about those wide-gauged ear rings/plugs, I would be totes on your side, bro.

 

[Mike]

I just get the feeling for whatever agenda, this transgender shit is being pushed on the populace all of a sudden, and we keep hearing about people doing it and how it's normal and whatnot. That will in turn get more and more impressionable minded people deciding to do that, and I for one don't think it's right. I don't hate transgenders and wouldn't bash them or anything. But at the same time, I don't like the way they're putting it out there like it's no big deal and that it's common or something. It's not common. But for young simple minded people, it WILL become more and more common now. Because people have seen famous celebrities doing it and heard all this talk about it, and they'll figure "so why not?" This whole thing seems to have come out of fucking left field all of a sudden and now it's front page headlines and they're making out like it's a whole sub-culture of people out there that are transgenders, and I call bullshit on that. But in a few years, there WILL be a subculture of them. And it's fucked up imo. Something about this is very, very fucked up.

This is such incredibly ridiculous think of the children logic. Being transgender isn't something you just decide to do one day. This is literally the kind of opinion that people only have when they have no idea what they're talking about.


People aren't waking up and deciding to have abnormal hormone levels, brain structure, etc. That isn't how it works. People like you that insist on calling them freaks and weirdos for a genetic abnormality they have no control over are part of why the rate of depression and suicide is so high for transgenders.

 

[Kick Strickland]

Just because you're not trans and can't be bothered to look into any information about it doesn't mean they're freaks.

People are so quick to judge anything and everything they don't understand.

Well "freaks" is a poor choice of words. But something about this just stands out badly like a splinter in my mind (pun intended). For real, like I can imagine people 100 years from now looking back to now, and saying this kind of shit is where American society took a major fucking wrong turn.

Just my opinion.

 

[Kick Strickland]

This is such incredibly ridiculous think of the children logic. Being transgender isn't something you just decide to do one day. This is literally the kind of opinion that people only have when they have no idea what they're talking about.


People aren't waking up and deciding to have abnormal hormone levels, brain structure, etc. That isn't how it works. People like you that insist on calling them freaks and weirdos for a genetic abnormality they have no control over are part of why the rate of depression and suicide is so high for transgenders.

Dude I wouldn't hate on anybody for any reason like that. People are free to do whatever the fuck they want with their lives. I just see this as being promoted as "a common thing to do" and I don't agree with that, and don't like where that line of thinking WILL lead our society.

But don't get me wrong, I would never hate on anyone for making that choice. It's the issue of how people are promoting it and how more and more people will make that choice in the near future, that bothers me. And mark my words, more and more people WILL end up doing this in the near future. This is just the beginning. And it's a wrong turn imo. Just my opinion though.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

Good for her. Hope she is happier not living a lie.

The lie is believing that makeup and a wig is being honest.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

The lie is believing that makeup and a wig changes anything.

Cool.

 

[minute bull]

Dude I wouldn't hate on anybody for any reason like that. People are free to do whatever the fuck they want with their lives. I just see this as being promoted as "a common thing to do" and I don't agree with that, and don't like where that line of thinking WILL lead our society.

But don't get me wrong, I would never hate on anyone for making that choice. It's the issue of how people are promoting it and how more and more people will make that choice in the near future, that bothers me. And mark my words, more and more people WILL end up doing this in the near future. This is just the beginning. And it's a wrong turn imo. Just my opinion though.

The thing is just because a bunch of people say it's common/brave/freakish/delusional doesn't mean it is. You don't have to buy into anything. It's just that when you contribute into the conversation, how you acquit yourself, agreeable or otherwise, should matter to you because ultimately a zeitgeist isn't all-defining. What we think of as a big deal isn't always what it's cracked up to be; it merely indicates something each of us is currently focused on. For example, on Sherdog and in the world of MMA McGregor is a huge deal -- but everywhere else people are leading their lives just fine without any knowledge of him.

Except for this guy:

 

[Kick Strickland]

The thing is just because a bunch of people say it's common/brave/freakish/delusional doesn't mean it is. You don't have to buy into anything. It's just that when you contribute into the conversation, how you acquit yourself, agreeable or otherwise, should matter to you because ultimately a zeitgeist isn't all-defining. What we think of as a big deal isn't always what it's cracked up to be; it merely indicates something each of us is currently focused on. For example, on Sherdog and in the world of MMA McGregor is a huge deal -- but everywhere else people are leading their lives just fine without him.

Oh believe me I'm NOT buying into the thinking that it's common. But a lot of people will, and currently do, and that will grow from here. And it's fucked up. Like it or not.

"oh what brave heroes." lol gtfo of here with that shit.

 

[minute bull]

 

[Mike]

Dude I wouldn't hate on anybody for any reason like that. People are free to do whatever the fuck they want with their lives. I just see this as being promoted as "a common thing to do" and I don't agree with that, and don't like where that line of thinking WILL lead our society.

But don't get me wrong, I would never hate on anyone for making that choice. It's the issue of how people are promoting it and how more and more people will make that choice in the near future, that bothers me. And mark my words, more and more people WILL end up doing this in the near future. This is just the beginning. And it's a wrong turn imo. Just my opinion though.

Well honestly these were the kind of arguments people had when society moved toward being more accepting of gays. Nobody just decides to be gay or decides to be trans though.

Does the media go a bit crazy with things sometimes? Sure but the media sux. The main message is that people should be able to be whatever kind of person they are without being shamed, and that's it.


I wasn't trying to pick a fight with you, just people using words like freaks rubs me the wrong way. Ultimately just like gays trans people have been around awhile and are not a creation of the media. There's nothing wrong with giving them some acceptance.

They aren't vampires, simply letting them live how they want isn't going to make more.


If you look into it are genetic structure is messy. Many people are born with both genitals, or a rudimentary version of each genitals.

Doctors have to make a judgement call at infancy as to which gender the child will be and surgically remove the other set.

Some people also have the physical body of one gender but have hormone levels and brain structure of the other gender.


Just because these things were fixed and stable for you and I doesn't mean they are for everyone else.


It's s lot like looking at someone with cystic fibrosis or clinical depression etc and saying well look at this weirdo I'm not like that.


It's all genetics that we have no control over, be happy you DON'T have those issues, it's all a dice roll.

 

[Seano]

Well "freaks" is a poor choice of words. But something about this just stands out badly like a splinter in my mind (pun intended). For real, like I can imagine people 100 years from now looking back to now, and saying this kind of shit is where American society took a major fucking wrong turn.

Just my opinion.

I think so too. This generation/era is going to be a laughing stock.

 

[Guestx]

OH YOU WANNA GET INTO PEOPLE'S LEXICONS AND SYNTAX WELL ALLOW ME TO RETORT

You're right....

With the caveat being your command of language is about as valid as another's unless they're flat-out using words incorrectly. This is not a case of someone pointing at the color green and calling it "pony." Similar words can be used interchangeably because how we interpret words is not absolute amongst us all. Even if you quibble with what they say, you know what they mean. To discount intention for the blind adherence of "what words means" is a product of confusion and/or, in your case bias. You're not confused -- you simply don't like hero being used with unconventional conventions. To me that amounts to splitting hairs, not that there's anything wrong with that.

You seem to think heroes require an audience and there are two rebuttals to that: one can be a hero to oneself and if someone thinks someone a hero who's to say that person is wrong? And, secondly, your terms of heroism are open to much debate. While you may think Lilly Wachowski does what she does only for herself, it can be argued she's made herself a lightning rod for insults, shaming, and harsh criticism in order to dispel fear and anxiety of other people who walk a similar path. Furthermore, you cannot be the sole arbiter of what constitutes this or that word.

Call it whatever you like. So can everyone else.

Nice post.

But one correction. I never actually said that the Wachowski's are doing what they're doing "only for themselves," what I said--earlier on in the thread--is that I'm not convinced at this point that it's a cause that actually should be promoted. They're doing very strange things to their bodies and trying to completely subvert nature's decisions, and saying that it's okay for people to do this, and I'm just not sure that's true. But I will say this: Regardless of whether this is a good thing or not, which ultimately is a matter of opinion when we really get down to it, I'll grant that intention plays a role: If they genuinely believe that what they are doing is right and good, and that by making this choice and being so public about it they are intending to help others, then perhaps in some sense it is heroic. Heroic-by-intention, I'd say.

But yeah, I'm still not sure we should be championing this shit. Consider this scenario: A girl who is a cutter starts posting videos on YouTube, slashing her fucking arms up and saying how she's trying to make people realize that it's a normal and acceptable behavior, and that cutters should be accepted just for who they are. Would you call her courageous and heroic? No, you'd say, "We need to get this bitch to a doctor and so we can fix this shit."

 

[Guestx]

I just get the feeling for whatever agenda, this transgender shit is being pushed on the populace all of a sudden, and we keep hearing about people doing it and how it's normal and whatnot. That will in turn get more and more impressionable minded people deciding to do that, and I for one don't think it's right. I don't hate transgenders and wouldn't bash them or anything. But at the same time, I don't like the way they're putting it out there like it's no big deal and that it's common or something. It's not common. But for young simple minded people, it WILL become more and more common now. Because people have seen famous celebrities doing it and heard all this talk about it, and they'll figure "so why not?" This whole thing seems to have come out of fucking left field all of a sudden and now it's front page headlines and they're making out like it's a whole sub-culture of people out there that are transgenders, and I call bullshit on that. But in a few years, there WILL be a subculture of them. And it's fucked up imo. Something about this is very, very fucked up.

I dunno, man. I'm not sure if it's an "agenda" so much as a few high-profile people did it and opened the floodgates for everyone else who has had similar thoughts.

Let me ask you this, though. I'm just curious about your specific reasoning. You have said several times that it's fucked up but haven't given your thoughts about WHY it's fucked up. So why exactly do you think it's fucked up?

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

Always impressed by the pro-trans sentiments around here. You crazy libs.