Volume, Rest Periods, Intesity, SS

[RedRover]

This is abstract and will probably get many answers but I need to hear some commentary on the topic. I am currently running SS, a second time because I had a hand injury this summer and lost a lot of strength during the healing process.
What I have noticed: I wait a long time between sets(work sets), often ~5 minutes. If I rush myself I cannot complete the reps in the second and third work set.

I have heard people say SS can be done in 30 minutes. No fucking way... It takes me more like 90 minutes from the first warm-up of Squats to the last rep of deadlifts. If you do power cleans it would take even longer due to the 3x5 instead of 5x3(currently doing chins instead, due to initial hand weakness).

Here's where my issue is. I have been lifting with a friend the last few Saturdays in a commercial style gym and I notice almost no one takes long breaks between sets. I'm not sure what program (if any) most of these guys are running, but what I do notice is they can bang out 4 exercises in the time it takes me to do just one.

Also I seem to be pretty much tired out after my 90 minutes or so of lifting, is this because my psyche knows that I "plan" to quit after my last set of whatever and I get the sense of completion afterwards? I have thought about adding curls or neck raises, or abs, something complimentary to the workout but by the time I finish the SS stuff I never feel like doing it.

I was wondering if this is normal, to have such big rests and be tired out after the big 3, and if this is to my detriment?
Would I be better off to run around and do 12 things like these guys are doing?

 

[Cratos]

You're fine.

 

[Im so Moldy]

Oh yeah, even with the light weight's I'm using squatting and deadlifting leaves me tired, sweaty, and dizzy. I usually rest 3 minutes, any sooner and I'll just fail the set. You're probably better off doing what you're doing. they're probably running around doing a bunch of different stuff and not getting results.

 

[DrBdan]

You are lifting for strength and are following a planned progression so you should be resting long enough to complete all of your reps and continue your progression. Who knows what those guys in the gym are doing... I bet they barely have any idea themselves.

 

[casperthegst]

if you don't want to take 90 minutes then split your workouts up and do them everyday,, for example

sun
squats

mon
pcleans
bench

tues
squats

wed
press
deads

thurs
squats

fri
pcleans
bench

sat
squats

 

[RedRover]

Many of these guys are pretty damned strong. I know there are guys who don't know what they're doing, but for example one of the guys rep'd 265 on bench 6 or 7 times, and he was a shorter stocky guy. It's weird to watch someone do a set, then 1 minute later go again. Also how the hell do they keep the energy to keep going from one thing to the next to the next to the next?
Observation: none of these guys was squatting or deadlifting, as expected it was all upper body stuff.

 

[casperthegst]

it could be many reasons. Juice maybe. Maybe their really strong and they are just doing sub maximal lifts.

 

[Henry Huggins]

Many of these guys are pretty damned strong. I know there are guys who don't know what they're doing, but for example one of the guys rep'd 265 on bench 6 or 7 times, and he was a shorter stocky guy. It's weird to watch someone do a set, then 1 minute later go again. Also how the hell do they keep the energy to keep going from one thing to the next to the next to the next?
Observation: none of these guys was squatting or deadlifting, as expected it was all upper body stuff.

I see this all the time. Get that guy into a squat rack and he won't be able to do 135 properly..guaranteed

 

[DrBdan]

if you don't want to take 90 minutes then split your workouts up and do them everyday,, for example

sun
squats

mon
pcleans
bench
etc...

The issue with something like this is that you don't have any rest days so you need to be careful with how you adjust the volume and intensity of each session. You have one of squat, deadlift, or power clean each day so if you try to go hard on each (like you would with SS) every time you will quickly burn out. A beginner probably doesn't have the knowledge and experience to properly program this.

Many of these guys are pretty damned strong. I know there are guys who don't know what they're doing, but for example one of the guys rep'd 265 on bench 6 or 7 times, and he was a shorter stocky guy. It's weird to watch someone do a set, then 1 minute later go again. Also how the hell do they keep the energy to keep going from one thing to the next to the next to the next?
Observation: none of these guys was squatting or deadlifting, as expected it was all upper body stuff.

Lots of people get strong with less than optimal programming, especially if they are focusing on one lift (in this case, bench). You can get somewhat stronger by simply lifting hard and being consistent but if you plan on lifting for a long period of time you would be better off learning more about proper programming.

 

[casperthegst]

The issue with something like this is that you don't have any rest days so you need to be careful with how you adjust the volume and intensity of each session. You have one of squat, deadlift, or power clean each day so if you try to go hard on each (like you would with SS) every time you will quickly burn out. A beginner probably doesn't have the knowledge and experience to properly program this.


Do you mind explaining this? Suppose you do Bench squats deadlifts on Monday then you do squats, bench, rows wednesday the overall systemic stress is still the same. Rippetoe and a couple of other guys gave me the idea to split the workouts up or even doing the regular starting strength protocol except doing it every other day rather than just 3 days a week and you should be able to recover. Eventually you will have to move to squatting every two days and deadlift once a week.

 

[Cratos]

Eventually you will have to move to squatting every two days and deadlift once a week.

Why?

Do you mind explaining this?

 

[casperthegst]

Why?

Do you mind explaining this?

Yes you recover better in two days then one once the weight gets heavy.

 

[casperthegst]

Yes you recover better in two days then one once the weight gets heavy.

but sense you point it out.....you do not HAVE to do this but it is a good option to do

 

[RedNeckJiuJitsu]

If you train with short rest periods for a long enough time and try to consistently add weight, eventually you'll get stronger with it, but it's likely to take you much longer than if you consistently follow a good strength oriented program. Shorter rest times are more hypertrophy oriented, while longer rest times allow your muscles to recovery more fully, allowing for more reps and heavier weight, which gives greater neurological adaptations, and thus, strength gains.
If you stick to a good strength program, you'll catch and pass those guys' numbers much faster than if you try to copy their (lack of) program.

 

[Tosa]

I think I finished a workout in under 90 minutes once.

Yes you recover better in two days then one once the weight gets heavy.

That's just not true. A lifter's capacity to train and recover can increase significantly as he becomes more advanced.

 

[RedRover]

If you train with short rest periods for a long enough time and try to consistently add weight, eventually you'll get stronger with it, but it's likely to take you much longer than if you consistently follow a good strength oriented program. Shorter rest times are more hypertrophy oriented, while longer rest times allow your muscles to recovery more fully, allowing for more reps and heavier weight, which gives greater neurological adaptations, and thus, strength gains.
If you stick to a good strength program, you'll catch and pass those guys' numbers much faster than if you try to copy their (lack of) program.

I'll probably keep riding out SS as long as my back holds out and I don't stall.
I'm in new grounds(rep wise, so hypothetically 1rm) on the pull, and within 10 lbs of new grounds on the squat. I'll do as prescribed, squeeze everything i can out of the program and then re-assess.
I am thinking about hypertrophy/lean out later, but for now I want to build that strength base/foundation.

I know SS is the best for gaining on the power lifting side of things but there are times I feel like I'm neglecting some of the secondary muscles like biceps/lats and abs specifically.

Restating the question:
Do you think I'm getting so tired because of the taxing lifts that SS is comprised of?

 

[casperthegst]

I think I finished a workout in under 90 minutes once.



That's just not true. A lifter's capacity to train and recover can increase significantly as he becomes more advanced.

I agree, there is many ways to get strong theres no one dogma you have to be religious to. This was just a suggestion I threw out that was suggested to myself by several people I consider knowledgeable. It has worked for myself despite my form problems.

 

[DrBdan]

Do you mind explaining this? Suppose you do Bench squats deadlifts on Monday then you do squats, bench, rows wednesday the overall systemic stress is still the same. Rippetoe and a couple of other guys gave me the idea to split the workouts up or even doing the regular starting strength protocol except doing it every other day rather than just 3 days a week and you should be able to recover. Eventually you will have to move to squatting every two days and deadlift once a week.

In a nutshell SS has you go into the gym, bust your ass, and then rest a day or two. If you start going to the gym and busting your ass every day without any rest days you will accumulate more fatigue causing burnout and/or injury. The solution is to make sure that you adjust the days so they aren't all "heavy" days which is something most inexperienced lifters can't do very well.

The solution would be something like this:

Spoiler

sun
squats (heavy)

mon
pcleans (light)
bench

tues
squats (medium)

wed
press
deads (heavy)

thurs
squats (light)

fri
pcleans (medium)
bench

sat
squats (light)

The more I think about it breaking up SS so you lift every day could work because for a new lifter the stress wouldn't be too much due to the relatively light weights being lifted. You would potentially progress a bit faster while burning out your noob gains quicker so it could even out. Personally I wouldn't do it but I guess someone could do it with success.

 

[Tosa]

You added an extra day of squats, DrB. It could work, especially if someone started appropriately light. But I don't think there'd be much of a point, unless it worked better with someone's schedule.

 

[casperthegst]

it works fellas. Even squatting heavy every time. One of these days im going to post up my entire history of my weightlifting on here when I transfer my notebook over to sherdog. (it would work even better if I ate more but I wont/can't because I have acid reflux at the moment)