views on the 50/50 guard

[ChainFlow]

Well, no, it's not always 50/50, because one person will usually have a head-start, or, like I said, a different starting point (top or bottom, ahead or behind on points), and of course, there are little details like angle/rotation, grips etc.

To make an analogy: A standing over/under clinch is not necessarily 50/50 either, as any Greco guy will tell you, as it's a constant battle of shoulder and hip position, but that doesn't make the over/under clinch a favorable position versus someone equally or more skilled (in that position), you just have to master it because it arises frequently when two skilled grapplers try to deny each other more dominant forms of control like double underhooks, arm drags and 2 on 1s. (In addition to often having to start from there.)

What I'm trying to say is that I think reciprocal positions are important to master, because they will arise often in close matches, but I wouldn't willingly enter such positions over other, safer/more dominant ones. Not to say that a specialist can't still have immense success doing so.

Excellently put.

Choosing the 50/50 over an inside leg control is exactly like choosing over/unders vs double unders. Or over something like the X-guard.

 

[Hermuculus]

Like someone else said," It's just another position". Counter it, pass it, get caught up in it.....ahhh whatever

 

[codemonkey76]

It's actually pretty common these days, as I'm sure you know. If either person passes from the 50/50, they're going to get 3 points. The fact that it's a very equal position doesn't mean it isn't a guard. Basically, they're both preventing the other person from coming on top without being on top themselves. That seems to be more or less the IBJJF criteria for a guard anyway (which would explain why turtle is not a guard, since one person is on top and past the legs, though arguably hasn't established strong top position).

To pass one person needs to be on top, so the person on bottom has guard, only from a double guard pull is one player not considered to be "on top", but if one player passes they have to be on top, as soon as they come on top, the other player is playing guard.

 

[Supereem]

So does a punch to the face, but that doesn't really make it a conventional guard.

It seems silly, but I think names are important because names identify the problem you have and how you need to solve it. One of the reason I think 50/50 gives so many people so many problems is because the rules of guard play do not apply to the position. I love 50/50 and I love the turtle position, but I don't call them guards because the fundamentals are different. Almost backwards.

50/50 is a leg entanglement. Not a guard. As far as leg entanglements go it's a pretty weak one, but whatevs. Improving position in BJJ tournaments only counts against a guard. Because of that, BJJ players feel the need to call anything they want to attack with a guard to give it some type of extra value internally or externally.

Names are important.

You are a pimp Calibur. A God damn Pimp. Keep pimpin my friend.

 

[TsunamiBJJ]

Meow. /thread

Truth!

Actually - I think that 50/50 guard is better in MMA applications than it is for sport BJJ. It gives really good distance control and with reaping the knee and heel hooks allowed the 50/50 can be used very effectively in MMA.

 

[Waldorf]

I was on a drive for a work meeting yesterday and was re listening to an old episode of the Fightworks Podcast (#178) and they had an interview where Ryan Hall broke down the 50/50. It came out in 2009 and it made me think of this thread. Time was it was after Rafa beat Cobrinha at Abu Dhabi Pro but before ADCC and before he had first beat him at a Mundials. If I recall it was around when the backlash was starting to build around the position. He had three interesting observations. One that it was a position onto itself, two that as the position was more explored there would be more from it and more action from the position, which I think we have seen. The last one was its dreaded stalling application really came into play as a strategy to beat Cobrahina's game by slowing him down.