views on the 50/50 guard

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josh112233

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Is the 50/50 still a big thing like it was a couple years ago? I only do no-gi and have stopped watching bjj matches on youtube lately so i dont really know. However, the other day, one of my teammates who usually trains at a different branch came into our main gym and pulled 50/50 guard on one of my other teammates in class. This caused our head instructor, who is a pretty old school guy, to go on a 10 minute rant ripping the 50/50 to shit about how its ruining jiujitsu and is a waste of time stalling position. Personally, I agree with him. I think it's really impractical especially since I train bjj primarily for mma and secondarily for fun. So what are you and/or your coach's perspective on the 50/50
 
I mainly train for sport BJJ. I don't pull 50/50 but I go there to defend the pass sometimes. I like to stay active from there though which is why I've been drilling the straight footlock from there alot. I think it has its uses but it can become a stalling position far too easily.

It's not all bad:

 
Granted, I'm only a white belt, but I'm already tired of sport BJJ positions.
I dont like stalling, and I dont like to see people sit and hold a position without working for a submission.
 
I feel like 50/50 rants about years ago are now in part replaced by berimbolo and more various kinds of double guards rants. But it's still here of course. It's just that now it has little, more important brothers.

Anyway, my instructor is an old school guy with an open eye on new techniques so he doesn't really encourage this stuff but he's ok with people incorporating it in their games, as long as they keep their jiu jitsu complete.
 
It's an okay platform for leg locks.

In ibjjf rules it's largely terrible. Naga or adcc, it's far from a stalling position.
 
50/50 is just another way that you can use the human body to control someone.

I drilled in relentlessly for a while and then I moved on. Sometimes, if a guy has a really good open guard, I set-up 50/50 to set up a leg drag like Rafa tried on Tanquinho.
 


This is what you should be doing from 50/50. In IBJJF tournaments, it's a bullshit position. Otherwise, you should be destroying people's lives.
 
I love playing 50/50. I think that it is a very technical position and offers a lot of control. I go for footlocks and leg drags mainly, lately Cavaca/Roli Delgado style ankle locks.

I have had a lot of success against bigger/stronger opponets with 50/50, especially with judo guys. Because it slows the game down and restricts exposive movements, it is a position where the skill gap can be exploited against stronger opponets.

I think even in MMA 50/50 could be very useful. Sergio Moraes had a nice hh from 50/50 in TUF if I remember correctly. Although I am probably going to get ridiculed for this, even for self defence it could be useful...untrained random guy will get stuck very easily and inside hh is pretty devatating submission. Ah yeah, inb4 lava glass gay lesbian scissor pulling guard on the street meow bros butt scoot etc.

I hate watching it in sport BJJ though.
 
Despite the symmetry of the position, I still consider it a guard. It guards me against strong judokas...
 
I currently like using the 50/50 to set up the calf slicer Sean Roberts uses, and will occasionally use it to slow the game down.
 
Armwrap said:
I love playing 50/50. I think that it is a very technical position and offers a lot of control. I go for footlocks and leg drags mainly, lately Cavaca/Roli Delgado style ankle locks.

I have had a lot of success against bigger/stronger opponets with 50/50, especially with judo guys. Because it slows the game down and restricts exposive movements, it is a position where the skill gap can be exploited against stronger opponets.

I think even in MMA 50/50 could be very useful. Sergio Moraes had a nice hh from 50/50 in TUF if I remember correctly. Although I am probably going to get ridiculed for this, even for self defence it could be useful...untrained random guy will get stuck very easily and inside hh is pretty devatating submission. Ah yeah, inb4 lava glass gay lesbian scissor pulling guard on the street meow bros butt scoot etc.

I hate watching it in sport BJJ though.
Click to expand...

I agree with your self-defense point.

Obviously, in self-defense you are looking to get on top (assuming you are only trained in BJJ) but if you get knocked down, it is very simple to enter 50/50 against a standing attacker. Also, most BJJ don't know how to play 50/50 let alone an untrained attacker. Attacking for hh is a very viable self-defense option in my opinion.
 
Armwrap said:
Despite the symmetry of the position, I still consider it a guard. It guards me against strong judokas...
Click to expand...

So does a punch to the face, but that doesn't really make it a conventional guard.

It seems silly, but I think names are important because names identify the problem you have and how you need to solve it. One of the reason I think 50/50 gives so many people so many problems is because the rules of guard play do not apply to the position. I love 50/50 and I love the turtle position, but I don't call them guards because the fundamentals are different. Almost backwards.

50/50 is a leg entanglement. Not a guard. As far as leg entanglements go it's a pretty weak one, but whatevs. Improving position in BJJ tournaments only counts against a guard. Because of that, BJJ players feel the need to call anything they want to attack with a guard to give it some type of extra value internally or externally.

Names are important.
 
It's definitely not a thing that people go to much at my gym.

I use it once in a blue moon...as a stalling position if I'm about to get passed.

I don't really know how to use it any other way at the moment so I generally stay away from 50/50
 
It's a fun position with lots of development still ahead. Seeing two guys stuck there is boring, but the same can be said for someone stalling from closed guard or two guys with shit judo trying and failing at takedowns for 10 minutes.
 
beating-a-dead-horse.jpg
 
It would be a much more interesting position if knee reaping were allowed, Im not even talking about heel hooks, just some reaping would already be a nice spice.
 
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