Usman & DC arguing over Max being the GOAT 145er

[MigitAs]

Aldo was the ripe old age of 29 when McGregor dethroned him. If someone is past their prime at 29....

Dude, he had so many crazy fights before even Conor. He was past his prime even at this point due to damage and wear and tear

 

[stacrafty]

Everyone ages the same, accumulates fight mileage and training mileage exactly the same, and all sports are created equally. Noted. I'm glad you knowing Adesanya having 100 fights is fact checking.

You clearly don't agree with me and you don't have to, but this is far from a compelling argument. I've stated my opinion on this matter in this thread, if people don't agree with me, so be it. Everyone is entitled to their perspective. I highly doubt I'm changing anyone's mind.

literally ~4x the fight volume bro. a lot of that would include fighting on months even weeks notice, injuries not healing etc
Doing king of the ring 3x which means fighting 3x in one night.

And then Volk compared to Aldo. Volks played rugby league. And I know anecdotal evidence doesn't count for much, but after 3 years of BJJ, 1 year of full time MMA (training 6-7 x a week, sometimes twice a day), a lifetime of playing soccer and doing other sports like surfing, snowboarding, skateboarding etc... I picked up the most injuries by far playing soccer. MMA and BJJ never got that badly injured. Its just not a high impact high frequency sport. Its much higher impact when you fight, but thats only 2-3x a year. Soccer or rugby league is high impact every single weekend.

Volks body is probably much more worn than Aldos.

But yeah, interesting where you can ponder the detail of different sports having different mileage, but you can't seem to consider strength of opposition when considering a fighters resume.

 

[Substance Abuse]

But yeah, interesting where you can ponder the detail of different sports having different mileage, but you can't seem to consider strength of opposition when considering a fighters resume.

But I did earlier in the thread... lol.

 

[stacrafty]

Dude, he had so many crazy fights before even Conor. He was past his prime even at this point due to damage and wear and tear

so he's just not that good then?

If he's having this crazy fights and taking damage vs the average opponents in the division at the time

Meanwhile Volk, Connor, Max have fights vs better opposition (including Aldo himself) and avoid taking as much damage

Which is funny cause this forum seems to champion guys that "destroy" their opponents, but will ignore when this backfires (ie Aldo apparently out of his peak at 29, Anderson's chin out hands down volatile style not working on modern fighters and him going 1-6 in his last 7)

Yet will criticize fighters who fighter strategically and don't get hit as boring.

 

[stacrafty]

But I did earlier in the thread... lol.

Considering Aldo has more title defenses than both Max and Volkanovski combined with nine to their seven. It's still him.

At this point it's Jose, Volkanovski and then Holloway.

So is it still Aldo?, considering the best guy he fought was Frankie, and then just a whole bunch of other decent but not elite fighters to pad those title defense numbers.

If the case then its more the luck of the maturity of the division at the time, rather than objectively being better than anyone else in the division ever... which arguably Volk is, given hes beaten everyone else in the Goat conversation. He just needs to rack up numbers now... which is kinda meaningless. Shows what a bung metric title defense count really is.

And then you have Max dominating everyone in the division, including Aldo
And then Volk dominating max... and beating Aldo too...

 

[Mike]

Everyone putting Max above Aldo just because he beat him past his prime is a bit much for me. Nobody has reigned for as long as Aldo did, it's crazy how little respect he gets these days.

 

[Mike]

You sure? He beat KZ almost a decade earlier, beat Chad twice and quicker once, took out Frankie who had a legitimate claim to the Lightweight title at the time.

MTB was on a ten fight winning streak before Aldo beat him; beat a 13-2 Cub Swanson; 23-3 Faber; Hominick who was on a 5-0 run with four finishes; undefeated and then 16-1 Chad Mendes; 16-3-1 Edgar who was robbed against Benson in their prior fight.

If you remove Holloway, who questionably beat Volkanovski in their second fight, he's beaten washed, off of suspension Mendes who had fought once in thirty months, past prime Aldo, and Ortega and KZ who were on one fight win streaks.

Volkanovski is an incredible fighter and I have no doubt he's going to rack up more defenses - who knows how many as he's about to enter the age where fighters slow down at the lighter weights - and add to his resume.

Division GOAT standings are created in the aggregate and context matters significantly. He has yet to surpass Jose.

Remember, newer fans think just speaking dismissively about accomplishments (because they weren't watching when they happened) is enough to completely invalidate them. After all, this is mma which they think has a century of evolution every 5 years or something.

 

[Mike]

So is it still Aldo?, considering the best guy he fought was Frankie, and then just a whole bunch of other decent but not elite fighters to pad those title defense numbers.

If the case then its more the luck of the maturity of the division at the time, rather than objectively being better than anyone else in the division ever... which arguably Volk is, given hes beaten everyone else in the Goat conversation. He just needs to rack up numbers now... which is kinda meaningless. Shows what a bung metric title defense count really is.

And then you have Max dominating everyone in the division, including Aldo
And then Volk dominating max... and beating Aldo too...

You say that so dismissively, like Frankie isn't one of the best fighters ever. And Aldo has a LOT of elite victories besides just Frankie. You must not have been watching then if you think for example KZ or Mendes weren't elite.

 

[Kb7]

I agree with Usman.
Aldo
Max
Volk

I know people will say but but Volkanovski beat Max 3x, sure he did but it's a body of work in the division and Max has that over Volkanovski, Volkanovski might just have Max Holloway's # stylistically. Volkanovski gets passed Jair Rodriguez, then he's for sure at 2nd only to Aldo. Aldo reign and body of work in the division will probably never be beat, unless a prodigy like Jones comes in and starts wrecking shop from when they're 20.

Conor does not belong in this conversation.

 

[stacrafty]

Remember, newer fans think just speaking dismissively about accomplishments (because they weren't watching when they happened) is enough to completely invalidate them. After all, this is mma which they think has a century of evolution every 5 years or something.

nah its more fans like you that have been apparently watching for ages without a clue really. We all saw Aldo run through the division, was it because he was elite and much better than everyone else? or the division was shallow. Did any 2nd place killers emerge like we have Max to Volk now? no... not really.

Best guy Aldo beat was Frankie, and everyone else where just good fighters, not great. wikipedia his record. Look at the depth....

As soon as he did start getting elite competition... he got beat. Conor, Max, Aldo etc. So it turns out he wasn't that good, was just a shallow'ish division.

you're basically a new fan who has been watching for ages. You haven't moved past being fascinated by "streaks" and probably have never even pondered strength of opposition.

There's a difference my friend, the devils in the detail. Aldo beat a bunch of average fighters, bar Frankie and maybe Mendes or Zombie, certainly no elites.
Volk has beat Max and Aldo (both elites) .

Contrast to GSP, same era, had a big streak too... but go look up the caliber of opposition GSP had, worlds apart from Aldo's

 

[stacrafty]

You say that so dismissively, like Frankie isn't one of the best fighters ever. And Aldo has a LOT of elite victories besides just Frankie. You must not have been watching then if you think for example KZ or Mendes weren't elite.

lmao kid, doesn't matter what you try and label them. Volk beating Max and Aldo himself, is always better than Aldo's wins over Frankie and Mendes. Or KZ? - hes a good, even great fighter. But no, not on the level of Max or Aldo himself.

Volk just has a much better strength of opposition. You think he sits back and takes whoever the UFC throw at him like Aldo and Anderson did during their careers? like having to drag low ranked opponents in to keep things fresh? No. If they are not worthy... Volk will go and fight at LW.

There's no world or universe where Aldo is better than Volk.

 

[Mike]

nah its more fans like you that have been apparently watching for ages without a clue really. We all saw Aldo run through the division, was it because he was elite and much better than everyone else? or the division was shallow. Did any 2nd place killers emerge like we have Max to Volk now? no... not really.

Best guy Aldo beat was Frankie, and everyone else where just good fighters, not great. wikipedia his record. Look at the depth....

As soon as he did start getting elite competition... he got beat. Conor, Max, Aldo etc. So it turns out he wasn't that good, was just a shallow'ish division.

you're basically a new fan who has been watching for ages. You haven't moved past being fascinated by "streaks" and probably have never even pondered strength of opposition.

There's a difference my friend, the devils in the detail. Aldo beat a bunch of average fighters, bar Frankie and maybe Mendes or Zombie, certainly no elites.
Volk has beat Max and Aldo (both elites) .

Contrast to GSP, same era, had a big streak too... but go look up the caliber of opposition GSP had, worlds apart from Aldo's

The hell are you talking about lmao. Right away with the bolded it's obvious you weren't watching. Why do you think he fought frankie and Mendes twice each? And I'm a huge gsp fan and watched his entire run, so I don't need to go to wikipedia lmao. I understand that's where you guys get all your news and opinions, but some of us were here and just watched all those fights.

 

[Substance Abuse]

You say that so dismissively, like Frankie isn't one of the best fighters ever. And Aldo has a LOT of elite victories besides just Frankie. You must not have been watching then if you think for example KZ or Mendes weren't elite.

Georges starts to slow down after injuries, ten years into his career and retires in year eleven. Fedor starts to experience losses eleven years into his career. Aldo starts to fade a little ten years into his career after injuries and starting young. But hey, it's impossible. He was just never that good and only beat average fighters, lol.

Get ready for that guy's soapbox. Insults incoming.

 

[Mike]

lmao kid, doesn't matter what you try and label them. Volk beating Max and Aldo himself, is always better than Aldo's wins over Frankie and Mendes. Or KZ? - hes a good, even great fighter. But no, not on the level of Max or Aldo himself.

Volk just has a much better strength of opposition. You think he sits back and takes whoever the UFC throw at him like Aldo and Anderson did during their careers? like having to drag low ranked opponents in to keep things fresh? No. If they are not worthy... Volk will go and fight at LW.

There's no world or universe where Aldo is better than Volk.

Well for one thing Volk is permitted to go up to lw while fw champ. Aldo wasn't. Another thing you would know if you actually followed mma.




I'll wait while you go google some more stuff. My memory of events I actually witnessed is strong and isn't going anywhere.

 

[legcramp]

Leon and Jones gave these two CTE confirmed.

 

[stacrafty]

I agree with Usman.
Aldo
Max
Volk

I know people will say but but Volkanovski beat Max 3x, sure he did but it's a body of work in the division and Max has that over Volkanovski, Volkanovski might just have Max Holloway's # stylistically. Volkanovski gets passed Jair Rodriguez, then he's for sure at 2nd only to Aldo. Aldo reign and body of work in the division will probably never be beat, unless a prodigy like Jones comes in and starts wrecking shop from when they're 20.

Conor does not belong in this conversation.

Conor is better than Aldo is too. Forget the embarrassing 13 second KO - tell me instead if there's anyone on Aldos resume that FW Conor could not beat?

You're fascinated by a streak which has more to do with circumstance of there being no elite competition round than Aldo being good. As soon as Aldo started fighting elites (and in his prime) he started losing.

 

[Mike]

Georges starts to slow down after injuries, ten years into his career and retires in year eleven. Fedor starts to experience losses eleven years into his career. Aldo starts to fade a little ten years into his career after injuries and starting young. But hey, it's impossible. He was just never that good and only beat average fighters, lol.

Get ready for that guy's soapbox. Insults incoming.

Great point I was actually originally going to respond that ten years is the general point most mma fighters start to decline. I just got sidetracked by the sheer ignorance of "Aldo never fought anyone elite"




It's like when people say Fedor never fought anyone good. I get it, you don't know who anyone is before 2017. That doesn't mean they were all cans though.

 

[stacrafty]

Well for one thing Volk is permitted to go up to lw while fw champ. Aldo wasn't. Another thing you would know if you actually followed mma.




I'll wait while you go google some more stuff. My memory of events I actually witnessed is strong and isn't going anywhere.

lmao the levels of cope are insane. You create a false narrative in your head, Aldo did not once attempt or hint at any desire to go up in weight. Like what is this am I being trolled? No one is this stupid. What did Aldo actually end up doing? - he went down in weight.

I must be being trolled. Yeah 100%, no one unless legit retarded would say "My memory of events I actually witnessed is strong and isn't going anywhere." and try and pass that off as a source of proof

 

[Mike]

lmao the levels of cope are insane. You create a false narrative in your head, Aldo did not once attempt or hint at any desire to go up in weight. Like what is this am I being trolled? No one is this stupid. What did Aldo actually end up doing? - he went down in weight.

I must be being trolled. Yeah 100%, no one unless legit retarded would say "My memory of events I actually witnessed is strong and isn't going anywhere." and try and pass that off as a source of proof

Um yeah he asked to go up and fight Pettis for the LW belt. And was told no by Dana unless he gave up the fw belt first. This is common knowledge.

 

[Substance Abuse]

lmao the levels of cope are insane. You create a false narrative in your head, Aldo did not once attempt or hint at any desire to go up in weight. Like what is this am I being trolled? No one is this stupid. What did Aldo actually end up doing? - he went down in weight.

I must be being trolled. Yeah 100%, no one unless legit retarded would say "My memory of events I actually witnessed is strong and isn't going anywhere." and try and pass that off as a source of proof

Ehhhh...

Aldo's willingness to move up made UFC president Dana White's job very easy and now he will begin the process of putting the fight together as soon as Pettis is cleared to return to action following knee surgery.

"Sounds like we've got a fight," White said. "That was easy, we got that deal done. One more thing I don't have to do on Monday."

Moments after White made that declaration he got a message from Pettis, who was watching the fights at home in Milwaukee.

"Anthony Pettis just called — he said he absolutely, 100-percent wants the Aldo fight and he'll take it. So there you go," White said.

As far as Aldo's title goes, White didn't relent on an earlier statement he made saying that if the Brazilian moves up to lightweight to challenge for the belt that he would have to relinquish his belt at 145 pounds.

If he loses, however, White said Aldo can go back down to 145 pounds if he chooses and challenge for the title again if he wants.

"The answer is yes — he would vacate the title, move up to 155, fight for the title, if he didn't win the title he could go back and challenge for the 45-pound title again, if he wanted to do that. Or he wins the 55-pound title and two other guys will fight for the 45-pound title," White said.

Never happened though. You're right.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.fo...aldo-superfight-for-lightweight-title-on-deck

This one is fake news as well...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports...aldo-likely-vacating-belt-093759431--mma.html