Economy US manufacturing survey shows worst reading in a decade

[JDragon]

Is this part in reference to China being justified? The US should have leaned on its EU/EA allies to form a united front there instead of picking fights with all of them simultaneously plus declaring Canada a national security threat. It's been so self-defeating and it'll take a long time to fully repair. In any case, I still wouldn't of placed tariffs on Chinese goods. The problem with them is intellectual property and trade secret theft within critical industries such as aerospace and semiconductors.

If you want to fuck China's ambitions up badly, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to deny them IC's from Intel, Qualcomm, Micron, Microchip, Texas Instruments, NVIDIA, et al. when such a significant portion of US semiconductor revenue is made through Chinese sales. You place export controls on the chipmaker's suppliers and choke off access to materials, machinery, equipment, software and services they require to raise their own domestic industry.

Namely these industrial high tech firms in particular. One of them is based in the Netherlands (ASML) and the other Japan obviously, this is where it would be nice to utilize the relationships with the allies you've been so keen to throw under the bus instead.

Yes, but I also realize that there are topics the US might have a legitimate issue with when it comes to Europe (e.g. differing levels of car duties - not that we'd buy American if these cars were cheaper, mind you).

I also agree with you that the trade war with China is not the proper measure. I think where our assessment differs is that I think it is actually a dangerous path that will accelerate the rise of China to the world's primary superpower. I think Trump's trade war will backfire (and is already backfiring). That doesn't mean I don't agree that China's conduct needs to be challenged, but that's also nothing new. In the past, simply everyone wanted a part of the growth cake there.

 

[PEB]

"
Bank Of America Dumps $75 Trillion In Derivatives On U.S. Taxpayers With Federal Approval"

Europe goes under so do we just because Powell been avoiding caving into the President the reality is the economy.

Powell knows the truth but he cannot tell the US citizens it will cause panic at the banks. Banks have been fast an lose with the blessing of the Fed.

One horrible example is bank of America. When Bernanke was trying to turn around the banks he got this bombshell dropped in his lap. Even at 3 percent we are talking 100's of billions we are on the hook.

He took the problem in had the treasury back it otherwise Bank Of America would have sunk. So the American people are holding this responsibility.

Treasury secretary Timothy Geithner did not want anything to do with this garbage. The President Obama told him to go ahead after Bernanke said the Fed. would back it.
Geithner soon after left his post a lot of this in Europe businesses.

 

[panamaican]

I just read an article on the trade war last week that had an interesting take on the situation. Essentially, China won't back down because it does not see itself having favorable trade balance despite $360 billion trade surplus in export. Much of that export, according to Beijing, benefited US as China absorbed the cost of manufacturing and environmental damages on behalf of American corporations. Beijing also looks at services US firms provide in China and they conclude that China is running a large deficit there. They also think that because of the much higher profit margin service has in comparison to manufactured goods, both sides are just about even.

Shit now I can't find the source.

That's interesting. I hope you find that source, I'd like to read it.

 

[Andy Capp]

"
Bank Of America Dumps $75 Trillion In Derivatives On U.S. Taxpayers With Federal Approval"

Europe goes under so do we just because Powell been avoiding caving into the President the reality is the economy.

Powell knows the truth but he cannot tell the US citizens it will cause panic at the banks. Banks have been fast an lose with the blessing of the Fed.

One horrible example is bank of America. When Bernanke was trying to turn around the banks he got this bombshell dropped in his lap. Even at 3 percent we are talking 100's of billions we are on the hook.

He took the problem in had the treasury back it otherwise Bank Of America would have sunk. So the American people are holding this responsibility.

Treasury secretary Timothy Geithner did not want anything to do with this garbage. The President Obama told him to go ahead after Bernanke said the Fed. would back it.
Geithner soon after left his post a lot of this in Europe businesses.

This has the look of an unfinished post, but it's intriguing nevertheless.

 

[NoDak]

Yes, but I also realize that there are topics the US might have a legitimate issue with when it comes to Europe (e.g. differing levels of car duties - not that we'd buy American if these cars were cheaper, mind you).

I also agree with you that the trade war with China is not the proper measure. I think where our assessment differs is that I think it is actually a dangerous path that will accelerate the rise of China to the world's primary superpower. I think Trump's trade war will backfire (and is already backfiring). That doesn't mean I don't agree that China's conduct needs to be challenged, but that's also nothing new. In the past, simply everyone wanted a part of the growth cake there.

I don't even give a shit about your NATO spending targets. Germany has a considerable level of organic FDI capital investments that result in a lot of stateside job creation.

China's idea of "foreign direct investment" is just code for buying up US tech assets, transferring intellectual property overseas and having American employees train their Chinese replacements. Even buying a minority stake gives you access to industrial trade secrets and every single one of the potential rejected Chinese buyers has been connected to the CCP government in one way or another. They aren't market-based transactions either so yeah, hmm, fuck that.

As far as the 'trade war', what I can't tolerate is a state-directed strategy of intransigent policies, acts and practices that deliberately undercut US output, competitiveness, investment, research, development, innovation and strategic domestically spawned industries which serve as invaluable sources of high wage employment, global exports, sustained economic growth and national security.

 

[NoDak]

Fake survey conducted by some TDS having losers. Every sane person knows that every aspect of America is the best it’s ever been in it’s entire history.

Interestingly, June 2018. Trade War started in July.

 

[PEB]

This has the look of an unfinished post, but it's intriguing nevertheless.

"
Potential losses on Bank of America’s massive $75 trillion book of risky derivative contracts has just been dumped onto the FDIC by the Federal Reserve.

Derivatives, once described by Warren Buffet as “financial weapons of mass destruction” are complex contracts entered into for speculation or to hedge risks linked to a wide variety of other (derivative) financial instruments such as currencies, commodities, interest rates, bonds, etc. In testimony to the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission in March 2011, Buffett warned that the trillions in derivatives held by major banking institutions could be “disruptive to the whole financial system” and that the risks were “virtually unmanageable.”

Regulators have fought to rein in risky trading in derivatives by banks under the Volcker Rule, but the banks have fiercely resisted and, so far, have been winning the battle. Derivatives contributed to the financial meltdown in 2008 when the government was forced to bail out giant insurance company AIG whose huge derivative bets exploded, putting the entire financial system at risk. Part of the problem is that due to the immense complexity of derivatives, regulators are unable to formulate rules that would effectively regulate them or reduce risks.

"

"The Fed’s approval to move derivatives from Bank of America’s holding company to the depository unit directly puts the U.S. taxpayers on the hook. The FDIC cannot handle any large banking failure with its depleted Deposit Insurance Fund and would have to immediately tap its line of credit with the U.S. Treasury."

https://problembanklist.com/fdic-to-cover-losses-on-trillion-bank-of-america-derivative-bets-0419/

Fun fact Buffett acquired billions of Bank of America stock after they unloaded the massive pile of crap on tax payers.

 

[Andy Capp]

"
Potential losses on Bank of America’s massive $75 trillion book of risky derivative contracts has just been dumped onto the FDIC by the Federal Reserve.

Derivatives, once described by Warren Buffet as “financial weapons of mass destruction” are complex contracts entered into for speculation or to hedge risks linked to a wide variety of other (derivative) financial instruments such as currencies, commodities, interest rates, bonds, etc. In testimony to the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission in March 2011, Buffett warned that the trillions in derivatives held by major banking institutions could be “disruptive to the whole financial system” and that the risks were “virtually unmanageable.”

Regulators have fought to rein in risky trading in derivatives by banks under the Volcker Rule, but the banks have fiercely resisted and, so far, have been winning the battle. Derivatives contributed to the financial meltdown in 2008 when the government was forced to bail out giant insurance company AIG whose huge derivative bets exploded, putting the entire financial system at risk. Part of the problem is that due to the immense complexity of derivatives, regulators are unable to formulate rules that would effectively regulate them or reduce risks.

"

"The Fed’s approval to move derivatives from Bank of America’s holding company to the depository unit directly puts the U.S. taxpayers on the hook. The FDIC cannot handle any large banking failure with its depleted Deposit Insurance Fund and would have to immediately tap its line of credit with the U.S. Treasury."

https://problembanklist.com/fdic-to-cover-losses-on-trillion-bank-of-america-derivative-bets-0419/

Fun fact Buffett acquired billions of Bank of America stock after they unloaded the massive pile of crap on tax payers.

You realize, of course, that shit like this is why the US had to enact an $800B bailout and Canada came out of the GFC almost unscathed. To paraphrase something I said earlier, that's what happens when you let the crooks write the rules.

 

[Andy Capp]

Interestingly, June 2018. Trade War started in July.

Saw Trump Tariffs at the bottom, saw Manufactured Confidence at the top.

 

[NoDak]

Saw Trump Tariffs at the bottom, saw Manufacturer Confidence at the top.

A nice illustration of how unnecessary all of this has been.

 

[44nutman]

Interestingly, June 2018. Trade War started in July.

When did Fox News get rid of the deficit counter on the bottom?

 

[NoDak]

When did Fox News get rid of the deficit counter on the bottom?

Please tell me that this actually existed?! <Lmaoo>

 

[44nutman]

Funny you don't see Fox News do in depth pieces on the deficit anymore. Trump 1st 3 years his budget deficit has been more than Obama's last budget. Fox no longer cares about deficits because their guy spends like a socialist.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

If you look at the graph on that page it looks like normal volatility.
You TDSers just can't see straight if your life depended on it.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Just wait until he's out of office and the effects of his tariffs start showing. Obama did tariffs with tires and that ended up in the industry shrinking within a few years. What does anyone think will happen with Trump's far wider usage of tariffs?

 

[Andy Capp]

A nice illustration of how unnecessary all of this has been.

How did that get changed from manufactured to manufacturer?

 

[NoDak]

If you look at the graph on that page it looks like normal volatility.
You TDSers just can't see straight if your life depended on it.

I only give a fuck about America, period. This tariff business is completely needless for the many reasons already given. In any case, the future of US manufacturing over the long term is as bright as the Scottsdale sunshine. This is going to be the real crisis.

 

[Ophydian]

Fucking Absurd lol.



I must have at least 1,000 posts or so on the US industrial sector (including manufacturing) and there's plenty to say here but I can't even be bothered with it right now. But yeah, essentially that:

And this:

Trump needs a weak dollar and it’s not to bring back manufacturing jobs but to pump up the real estate market. Strong dollar makes for less foreign investment.

 

[NoDak]

 

[Orgasmo]

Here comes more tariffs from Tariff Man.

The US has been given the go-ahead to impose tariffs on $7.5bn (£6.1bn) of goods it imports from the EU. It is the latest chapter in a 15-year battle between the US and the EU over illegal subsidies for planemakers Airbus and rival Boeing.

The World Trade Organization (WTO) ruling will mean tariffs on EU goods ranging from aircraft to cheese, olives and jumpers from 18 October. Brussels has threatened to retaliate similarly against US goods.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49906815