Social Uncomfortable Conversations: "The right kind of refugee"

[Morning Star]

I'm not against taking in refugees unless it's 80-90% men. It's should be 50/50 at the very least. Also helps if there is a respect for the country and culture you are coming to and a willingness to adapt.

 

[Dalarna3]

Greater cultural compatibility and better education.

 

[gatchaman]

Do you know what became of that old lady who you evicted?

 

[Brueskie]

The English have despised the Polish and Ukrainian immigrants for years now but all of a sudden they are wanted refugees?

lol give me a break

This is an inflection point. History is full of 'em.

 

[dreden1982]

Quoted from an article…

“He has hired celebrity attorney Mark Geragos’ firm to represent him, and Alexandra Kazarian appeared for the firm Wednesday”

How dare you mf

 

[Bargey]

I want to preface this by saying that the situation in the Ukraine is tragic, and civilians looking to leave the country should be welcomed by others who have the capacity to take them in.

With that being said, the Ukrainian crisis has highlighted the disparate response by the western world in how it perceives and treats refugees. Some people have been very blunt in their assessment of the situation

"These are not refugees from Syria, these are from Ukraine, they are Christians, they are white, they look very similar to us."

“It’s really emotional for me because I see European people with blue eyes and blonde hair being killed…”

There are dozens of examples of this, but you get my point - the humanitarian response to the Ukrainian crisis has been overwhelming, with millions of dollars being donated to help provide aide, countries opening their borders to welcome displaced people. Canada is even offering immediate work permits and access to social services, while some of our universities are eliminating tuition for foreign students from the Ukraine.

I am not principally opposed to any of these things - I think that when you have the ability to help, you should help. I am more interested in hearing your thoughts as to why there is a double standard - the notion of a "good refugee" and a "bad refugee". Is it something as simple as race, or are their dimensions of the Ukrainian conflict that make the world more sympathetic to their displacement?

Personally, I think there are three primary drivers:
1) The most obvious one being race and to a lesser degree, religion. Given that Ukrainian's "look like us" and their culture and values are seemingly more compatible and relatable to the average Westerner.
2) Ukraine enjoyed a (relative) degree of affluence and development relative to other countries prone to conflict, and their displacement is seen as something that nobody would have expected. If it could happen there, it could happen here.
3) There are broader global implications associated with the conflict and Russia being seen as a growing aggressor. As a result, we want to support Ukraine and its people, in a demonstration to show countries like Russia and China that the world will not tolerate bullies.

I do however find it somewhat perverse that we are able to generate hundreds of millions of dollars to support Ukraine and it's people, but the world balks at providing meaningful aid to war torn countries where children are literally starving to death. When Syrian refugees were fleeing the Putin backed Assad regime, they were turned away at gun point or faced razor wire fences. There are numerous stories of families who walked hundreds of kilometers to flee gang violence in Central America, only to be turned away by American border agents.

This is a topic that hits closer to home, as I once worked on a project in Yemen (Kharaz refugee camp) and witnessed saw what the ravages of civil war could do to displaced people.

If we have room for one, but not the other, what should the guiding criteria be? What makes a good refugee, and why do we have sympathy for some, but not all?

For the record, this isn't some sort of race baiting topic, I am genuinely curious - every country should have the right decide who they let in, using whatever criteria they want.

I think it comes down in part to the media, in part to a type of racial identity and in part to the brazen nature of this particular Russian invasion. I really don’t know why the media has switched off the Saudi - Yemeni conflict but I get the feeling that it wouldn’t get as much attention anyway and that’s partly because it just hasn’t been covered much previously. I think geopolitical concerns play a part too. For example most westerners don’t have much in common ethnically with the Taiwanese, but I’d guarantee the world would get just as worked up as over the Ukraine invasion, were China to invade.

 

[Brampton_Boy]

Do you know what became of that old lady who you evicted?

We settled for $100,000 instead of going to court and having her contest the will. Apparently mistresses have more rights than I would have guessed.

While it is illegal for a person to be married to two people, when it comes to spousal support, a person can apparently have multiple dependent spouses. All they have to establish is that there was a romantic relationship that existed for a certain period of time (she was my dad's mistress for decades).

With that being said, money well spent. We were able to move forward with taking control of my dad's properties, and she moved in with her elderly brother somewhere in Hamilton.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

I don’t see how this is complicated. Everyone here cares more about people they’re closer to.

Ukrainians are and feel closer to most Europeans than Syrians or Africans. We simply share more culture as well.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

You seem to be confused about how the average eastern euro migrant to western Europe was treated.

 

[Misanthropist]

…

 

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

You realise Syrian refugees were accepted in Europe en masse right? Just a week into this conflict and you had scumbags pushing their far right idpol bullshit screaming basically “fuck the Ukrainian refugees their white”. No I’m not saying those Syrian refugees were welcomed by all but they were welcomed by the vast majority. I’m not even on social media and two days into this I’m seeing “Ukrainian lives don’t matter” FFS.

We have seen the term “mask off” a lot the last few decades and I think now the perfect time to use it. It’s not just the complete distain shown towards Ukrainian women and children fleeing a war zone but also the absolute hate shown towards the average working class Russians that’s completely absurd. Solidarity is not just a word, but for these people who have a lot more in common with the junkie at the bar with a swastika tattooed on his neck then they care to admit, it seems it is.

As for the reporters and the obvious racist undertones in their comments I have to ask who left, right or centre has any respect for the “press” these days anyway

 

[Source]

I like how many of you have substituted the word culture to mean skin color.

 

[DC23]

Nothing uncomfortable about this topic at all. Come to my city, I’ll take you to refugees that are nothing but a drain on society and tax payers money and I’ll take you to another part of the city where they’re hard working and doing their best to provide for their own family.

It’s not difficult.

 

[codfather]

The Ukrainian refugees are overwhelmingly Christian women and children fleeing a brutal war to neighboring countries.
The non-European refugees are overwhelmingly Muslim men fleeing poverty, passing through multiple safe countries to get to the places with more generous welfare systems.

 

[Slick_36]

Holy shit, this thread is depressing. This has only stuck out to me since the war started, it's been a very stark difference in the support. I've wanted to discuss it but the timing doesn't feel right with the war still happening.

It's not even a right vs left thing, I've seen both sides act like this has been the first invasion by a modern military in the past 50 years. These actions aren't justified, but we've been relatively silent about these same atrocities and only now realize it's happening to human beings. I get the threat of WWIII changes the dynamic, but that really only extends to how we view Russia, not Ukraine.

 

[Zinger]

I prefer the Ukrainian refugees, because they are culturally similar, live right next to us, and there is no language barrier.

Those guys are very easy to assimilate, and most importantly they express the desire to do so.

Plus, they obey our laws and order, and are more peacefully minded, which helps a lot to side with them.

I find it hard to imagine that guys from Ukraine would rather threaten to commit suicide, if we refuse to relocate them to Germany, than stay here.

I know my country isn't a paradise, but come on. You're running from war. That shit is disrespectful.

 

[jimbob27]

The Ukrainian refugees are overwhelmingly Christian women and children fleeing a brutal war to neighboring countries.
The non-European refugees are overwhelmingly Muslim men fleeing poverty, passing through multiple safe countries to get to the places with more generous welfare systems.

They're not actually seeking countries with welfare systems, the vast majority of immigrants want to work. The reason the skip "safe" countries is because just like the you and me, they can also recognise them as Muslim shitholes who may well join the arab spring chaos that seemed to destroy every country it infected.

 

[12ga.]

I think you may be missing the point of my post. Also, I'm not manipulating anything - you have political leaders actually saying that since this happening to white Europeans, it makes the situation more "tragic".

With that being said, I am not saying that any reason is good or bad, I am more interested in what drives perceived differences in what constitutes good or bad refugees.

As others have pointed out, the western world has been taking in minority refugees for decades - and that decision has largely been met with reticents and frustration that countries seem more interested in catering to the needs of of foreigners, than they are their own people. This is a frustration I share, as I have been a vocal critic of Canada's immigration and refugee policy - we grossly neglect our indigenous communities.

Thus far though, the world has welcomed Ukranian's with open arms (as they should), but historically, have been far less willing to do so when it comes to other displaced people.

They wernt saying shit when white Russians in Donbass were getting shelled for 8 years by Ukrainains.

It's not about whiteness.

It's about worthy and unworthy victims in the geo-politics game. Ukrainans are worthy victims because we oppose Russia.

 

[Vergilius]

I think there are several reasons why people respond more positively to Ukranian refugees:

1) they look like us. This is, of course, borderline racist, but I see a Ukranian child I see my own children in them. It triggers an immediate emotional response, whether you like it or not.
2) There are women and children among them - most people want to protect women and children. Refugees from the Middle East tend to be men and boys and a lot of them are economic migrants rather than people fleeing oppression.
3) they are European - we have a shared heritage and culture. All people around the world seek to help people they identify with.
4) we have few negative experiences with Eastern European immigrants. There is prejudice against middle eastern refugees in my country and it is partly caused by the fact that we've had difficult experiences with migrants from the middle east and Africa. Now, I personally know many really nice and upstanding people from the ME, but lots of my countrymen are leery of taking in too many of them... and I kind of understand.

For the record, I do think we should help genuine refugees from all parts of the world - but I also don't think we have to open our doors to every migrant who wants to live here.

Ps. people in my country are also quite welcoming of East Asians - because the positive instances of integration far outweigh the negatives.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

Christians will fit into Christian countries better. Plenty of Syrian and Somali Christians are welcomed as well.

You'll notice Hong Kongers, Goans,
Fillipinos, Amerindian Venuzeulans and the like are openly accepted in Europe. What is the majority religion of all these people. America is obsessed with race, whereas Europe is obsesed with culture.

Also, it is mainly women and children from Ukriane. The men stayed behind to fight, other than the old and infirm. Unlike with the migrant crisis, which was mostly men in their 20s and 30s.