UFC Press Event (PED Event) Discussion (Video)

[The Clinch]

Zuffa only gives such a shit because their moneymakers are at stake. Cant have that.

 

[darticus]

Ill believe the seriousness when a mid to high level fighter is caught after July and they are punished. Until then i really skeptical that their stance is really serious.

 

[dim_]

WADA is a legal entity, now? Show me the court precedent.

you are viewing the athlete as an employee

if an athlete is contracted to a sporting body they agree to abide by their rules and regulations with usually built in that these rules and regulations may change. If a sport is signatory to the WADa code they in turn take on their rules and regulations.

Generally disciplinary hearings (in the US) regarding athletes involved in WADA sports are dealt with by the American Arbitration Association rather than a general legal court, and any appeals are dealt with by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, so yes, they are legally binding within sporting parameters

(good case in point is Lance Armstrong who tried to challenge USADA's jurisdiction through the Texas State Courts and it was thrown out)

It is a sport, it is not a basic fundemental right in life like employment is. Weve seen many thousands of athletes banned for 2 years without any legal recourse in regards employment law including american's. That will not change.

What will have to happen however, is all contracts will need to re-signed.

IF UFC decide to follow the WADA code from July 1st then all fighters/employees will need to sign new contracts containing clause that the UFC now adheres to the WADA code.

Failure to sign the contract will render the current contract null and void. simple

 

[dim_]

I think the Ufc are hoping for Olympic standard type protocols such as a 2yr ban for a first failed test, 4yrs ban for a second failed test & a lifetime ban for your third failed test.

This has now changed to 4 years under the new WADA code for 2015. Which is why 4 years is being bandied around.

 

[blokeybloke]

This has now changed to 4 years under the new WADA code for 2015. Which is why 4 years is being bandied around.

Didn't know this, Tks.

 

[dim_]

Didn't know this, Tks.

4 years under wada also covers not just only doping, but attempting to dope, or possession of doping products. As well as refusing a sample, or obstructing testers, tampering with samples etc.

 

[BrazilianDude]

Four year bans sound impossible. It's just them over-promising and under-delivering. An actual four year ban would never stand under legal scrutiny. Regardless of PED violation, imagine someone going without income for four years. Yeah, right.

Plus they are issued by athletic commissions and not the company. It's just PR talk until they try to implement anything.

They can't ban people from the sport, but they can ban them from the UFC. Just like they did to Palhares.

 

[UL]

Ufc 200 will be in 2016

Zuffa will start selling by then

They don't care but you fools can believe something will happen

 

[hoyle1911]

Here's a solution: don't fucking cheat. They know the penalty. They're effectively being given 5 months to get clean. If they don't, too fucking bad.

Fighting in the UFC/Bellator/WSOF isn't a right. If I go to work in the oil patch, and get shitcanned from the industry for failing a drug screen, it's no different.

A firing from a profession could get you blacklisted, but an enforced ban? I guess a professional license can be suspended.

Four years, however? I'm not seeing it. The "reasonable" standard at this point is 12 month suspension or less; I'm not aware of many fight license suspensions going longer than that. Four years is impractical; they might as well call it a lifetime ban.

 

[hoyle1911]

I think the Ufc are hoping for Olympic standard type protocols such as a 2yr ban for a first failed test, 4yrs ban for a second failed test & a lifetime ban for your third failed test.

List of doping cases in athletics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_athletics

Olympic bans have their own logic since they only compete every four years, or two years if you add in the Winter Olympics. For a sport that competes weekly to monthly, I see four years as excessive.

Note I'm in favor of strict testing and outing all cheaters, but I'd like this to be in line with the "reasonable person" standard. Four years for a sport that regularly fights sounds over the top.

 

[blokeybloke]

A firing from a profession could get you blacklisted, but an enforced ban? I guess a professional license can be suspended.

Four years, however? I'm not seeing it. The "reasonable" standard at this point is 12 month suspension or less; I'm not aware of many fight license suspensions going longer than that. Four years is impractical; they might as well call it a lifetime ban.

Fighters prolly average what, 2 or 3 fights a year. The current 9mth suspension has no teeth as it means they're only missing out on 1 or maybe 2 fights.

Pretty much why Pitchers in baseball should get 5x the length of a regular baseball players ban, as they only pitch every other 5 days.

 

[Zankou]

A firing from a profession could get you blacklisted, but an enforced ban? I guess a professional license can be suspended.

Four years, however? I'm not seeing it. The "reasonable" standard at this point is 12 month suspension or less; I'm not aware of many fight license suspensions going longer than that. Four years is impractical; they might as well call it a lifetime ban.

They should. If you get caught doping, your career should be essentially over.

As it stands, the penalties have been like a light slap on the butt, making it irrational to play clean.

 

[neandertal]

I think the Ufc are hoping for Olympic standard type protocols such as a 2yr ban for a first failed test, 4yrs ban for a second failed test & a lifetime ban for your third failed test.

List of doping cases in athletics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_athletics

They have just changed it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/30648392

1 January 2015

Minimum ban for doping increased from two years to four

Drug cheats in sport face a minimum four-year ban under new rules which came into effect from 1 January.
Changes to the World Anti-Doping Code, which unifies anti-doping rules for global sports, have increased the suspension for doping from two years.

I pressume that all "steroids"(testo etc, and raised levels) will give atleast a mandatory 4 year sentence.. probably life for second.
But they will have a more flexibility, leniency on other milder PEDs like caugh medicine, asthma medicine, allergic medicine etc. prob. 2 years.
4 years is harsh for those kinds of things..

..Or almost go off free. because of ignorance defence..

http://espn.go.com/olympics/hockey/...kstrom-drops-appeal-sochi-olympic-doping-case

pseudoephedrine, :He said the stimulant was contained in a sinus medication he had been taking for allergies.

The Washington Capitals center dropped his appeal against the International Olympic Committee ruling that he committed a doping violation. In return, he was issued with the minimum sanction of a reprimand and cleared of any intention to cheat.

 

[blokeybloke]

Olympic bans have their own logic since they only compete every four years, or two years if you add in the Winter Olympics. For a sport that competes weekly to monthly, I see four years as excessive.

Note I'm in favor of strict testing and outing all cheaters, but I'd like this to be in line with the "reasonable person" standard. Four years for a sport that regularly fights sounds over the top.

Personally, i'd prefer a 2yr ban for a first failure, 4yr ban for a 2nd failure & a lifetime ban for a 3rd strike.

This may actually be a and/or the sticking point between the Ufc & USADA currently. Time will tell

4yr ban for a first offence seems harsh even to me & i f'n detest PED cheaters.

 

[dim_]

Olympic bans have their own logic since they only compete every four years, or two years if you add in the Winter Olympics. For a sport that competes weekly to monthly, I see four years as excessive.

Note I'm in favor of strict testing and outing all cheaters, but I'd like this to be in line with the "reasonable person" standard. Four years for a sport that regularly fights sounds over the top.

So olympic athletes only compete every four years? What do they do the rest of the time?

And its not just olympic sports, its ALL Sports that subscribe to the WADA code.

Say for instance a cyclist banned for four years, he misses
Four Tour de France (the pinacle of cycling)
Four World Championships
Four Giro d'Italia
Four Vuelta Espana
Four paris Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Liege Bastogne Liege as well as countless other races and events.
And the olympics (which is pretty low on the list of priorities).
(And to make it worse, most cycling teams have now signed an agreement saying they will not sign riders convicted of doping)

A track and field athlete misses multiple world championships, multiple prestigious events, national championships, pan american games, commonwealth games

A fighter banned for four years misses maybe 10-12 fights

If you were to actually make it fair, and make bans on an "per event" basis, the ban in MMA would need to be about 10 years to be comparable to other sports.

 

[hoyle1911]

They can't ban people from the sport, but they can ban them from the UFC. Just like they did to Palhares.

That would be an interesting tactic. Fighters could sue to be released and fight for Bellator.

 

[blokeybloke]

So olympic athletes only compete every four years? What do they do the rest of the time?

And its not just olympic sports, its ALL Sports that subscribe to the WADA code.

Say for instance a cyclist banned for four years, he misses
Four Tour de France (the pinacle of cycling)
Four World Championships
Four Giro d'Italia
Four Vuelta Espana
Four paris Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Liege Bastogne Liege as well as countless other races and events.
And the olympics (which is pretty low on the list of priorities).
(And to make it worse, most cycling teams have now signed an agreement saying they will not sign riders convicted of doping)

A track and field athlete misses multiple world championships, multiple prestigious events, national championships, pan american games, commonwealth games

A fighter banned for four years misses maybe 10-12 fights

If you were to actually make it fair, and make bans on an "per event" basis, the ban in MMA would need to be about 10 years to be comparable to other sports.

Aaand just like that, i'm already kinda liking this new 4yr ban for a first offence.

Tks, again!

 

[dim_]

4yr ban for a first offence seems harsh even to me & i f'n detest PED cheaters.

The four year ban put in place by WADA is partly being done to find the enablers, doctors, coaches etc that facilitate doping.

Catching an athlete is only the very tip of the iceberg, its the suppliers,the trainers, the doctors that will just move onto supplying another athlete are the problem.

So the four year ban has built in caveat's in that an athlete may receive a "significant" reduction in their ban for co-operative information. So much of the four year is a "we are giving you 4 years, but if you co-operate, tell us who supplied you, who enabled you, then we will reduce it. In turn WADA have the power to ban coaches, trainers, staff from working within (wada signatory) sports

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

As expected, it was pretty much a press conference to admit that there's a problem but put the blame on the commissions and act like it's out of their hands.

The extra testing sounds good and all but each state will have to agree to it and ultimately, it will be on them to give out suspensions and punishment, not the UFC.

The UFC can say they want a WADA standard all they want but it's up to the commissions.

 

[hoyle1911]

you are viewing the athlete as an employee

if an athlete is contracted to a sporting body they agree to abide by their rules and regulations with usually built in that these rules and regulations may change. If a sport is signatory to the WADa code they in turn take on their rules and regulations.

Generally disciplinary hearings (in the US) regarding athletes involved in WADA sports are dealt with by the American Arbitration Association rather than a general legal court, and any appeals are dealt with by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, so yes, they are legally binding within sporting parameters

(good case in point is Lance Armstrong who tried to challenge USADA's jurisdiction through the Texas State Courts and it was thrown out)

It is a sport, it is not a basic fundemental right in life like employment is. Weve seen many thousands of athletes banned for 2 years without any legal recourse in regards employment law including american's. That will not change.

What will have to happen however, is all contracts will need to re-signed.

IF UFC decide to follow the WADA code from July 1st then all fighters/employees will need to sign new contracts containing clause that the UFC now adheres to the WADA code.

Failure to sign the contract will render the current contract null and void. simple

Thanks for that. I hadn't considered arbitration.

As a fundamental right, I think they can argue it as the equivalent to employment as there is intensive training and professional licensing. Standard non-competes are twelve to eighteen months in a tri county radius, depending on the state. I can see a successful lawsuit stating four years is beyond reasonable.