UFC on Fox 31: Lee vs. Iaquinta 2 - PBP Discussion - 4pm ET/1pm PT/9pm UK

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Jackonfire, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. Al Tair

    Al Tair White Belt

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    We know that. But he talked a lot of shit pre-fight about how 'easy' al laquinta is. Claimed he could beat khabib and Conor. So when we critique him we have to do it harshly.
     
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  2. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Gold Belt

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    He tapped out Mustafaev, Trinaldo and Chiesa all in a row. All elite fighters beat Barboza, but he was clearly able to out grapple him with impunity. I'm having a hard time coming up with 5 guys at lightweight who have better, current MMA adapted submission grappling creds right now?

    Tony and Khabib for sure, that makes... two.
     
  3. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Gold Belt

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    He tapped out Mustafaev, Trinaldo and Chiesa all in a row. All elite fighters beat Barboza, but he was clearly able to out grapple him with impunity. I'm having a hard time coming up with 5 guys at lightweight who have better, current MMA adapted submission grappling creds right now?

    Tony and Khabib for sure, that makes... two.
     
  4. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Gold Belt

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    You don't have to convince me I think Lee is extremely annoying.

    Objectively, however, I think Lee just dropped a 3-2 decision to Al, who arguably just fought literally the best fight of his life.
     
  5. goronsaki

    goronsaki Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    Another Asian fighter robbed by the judges. Poor Lee
     
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  6. fortheo

    fortheo Steel Belt

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    I don't put much weight in out grappling Mustafaev, and his grappling success against trinaldo was mainly because he rocked him with a head kick. Chiesa is not and never has been elite.

    Don't get me wrong Lee is a good grappler, he's just not what people were making him out to be. I think he might be better suited for 170lbs, too. He seems to wilt.
     
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  7. Spitfire3000

    Spitfire3000 Brown Belt

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    Majority of people think Lee won round 3, and round 1 was closer than round 3. I said I thought Al won 3 to 2 so not really sure why you thought to gainsay me.
     
  8. rjmbrd

    rjmbrd Gold Belt

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    I get those opinions, but you cannot explain away tapping those three guys in succession in the context of the current lightweight division, then easily taking down and dominating Barboza, and propose you have 5 more proven MMA adapted submission grapplers right now.

    So that makes Lee well ensconced among the elite submission grapplers currently at 155lbs.

    FFS he took Al's back twice tonight, and the first time Al was saved by the bell. Context here is important.
     
  9. europe1

    europe1 It´s a nice peninsula to Asia

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    Barboza (and possibly Hooker) not getting a performance-bonus is a travesty
     
  10. fortheo

    fortheo Steel Belt

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    We see things differently. The guy loses practically any time he faces someone who can put up grappling resitance

    He wanted nothing to do with bjj ace santos on the ground, lost twice in practically the same type of fight to a collegiate wrestler in AI, and lost to another collegiate wrestler in Tony. He looks very good against lower level guys, but he's not up to par yet.

    I honestly believe that Khabib, Tony, gillespie, makhachev, davi ramos, khabilov are all as good if not better grapplers than Lee.

    we'll see what the future holds, but I think Lee will continue to struggle with grapplers.
     
  11. The Half Blood Prince

    The Half Blood Prince Green Belt

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    What a way to go down for Hooker, he just would not give up no matter how much pain he was until the last Barboza kick
     
  12. OCEANCIDAL

    OCEANCIDAL Purple Belt

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    Nah. Barboza deserved a POTN bonus. Hooker was tough and nothing else. You don't get FOTN when one half of the fight is a human punching bag and we're all just waiting to see when he'll finally go down.
     
  13. OCEANCIDAL

    OCEANCIDAL Purple Belt

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    Al didn't get saved by shit. Bell or no bell, he proved he can survive that back control all day and eventually get up to win the fight.

    I was high on Lee's grappling before tonight. Was rooting for Al but thought he had to stuff him all night to win. Thought the staph was responsible for his performance against Ferguson. That obviously wasn't the case.

    Lee has a lot of work to do. He gets rocked in almost every fight and it's now evident that he slows down against guys who he can't steamroll on the mat. Unless he makes some serious changes, he'll get some big wins but they'll be sandwiched between losses to durable well rounded fighters who push him.
     
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  14. OCEANCIDAL

    OCEANCIDAL Purple Belt

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    If it fails, he gasses harder and gets knocked out.

    This narrative that Lee gave the fight away is laughable. He fought to the best of his ability. He doesn't have the gas tank to push the pace on guys in a back and forth fight. He can steamroll his opponents, he can dominate them for the duration of the fight but it's now clear that he can't keep up the pace he needs to when someone can offer resistance and not get tired in the process. He decided to pace himself and pick his spots to look for the finish. It was a good approach, he just lost to the better man.
     
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  15. Soul On Ice

    Soul On Ice The driver and the shooter

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    Changing levels is not a high energy move

    He was upright way too much
    He didn't even need to attempt a takedown
    Just feint like you're gonna attempt one
    Keep the opponent guessing
    Al has to adopt a extremely low stance against Khabib just because Khabib was feinting takedown attempts
     
  16. Substance Abuse

    Substance Abuse Plutonium Belt Platinum Member

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    Holy. Fucking. Shit. That Barboza/Hooker fight. Caught it late. Bah Gawd.
     
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  17. OCEANCIDAL

    OCEANCIDAL Purple Belt

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    Al was already in an extremely low stance for most of the fight. He could've feinted the TD more, sure, but Al was managing the distance very well and ready to counter at any misstep. Lee didn't seem comfortable even being in shooting range, where feinting the TD would be effective.

    Doesn't seem like you're giving Al enough credit for making him fight his fight, and I think you're also underestimating how difficult it is to mix it up effectively when someone is trying to take your head off. It's a skill in itself to stay calm under fire, feint the TD and still be able to mix it up simultaneously with the striking. I don't know that we've ever seen Lee fight that way period. Even if what you're saying was true, that would be more than just a gameplan issue. That would require him to be far more experienced and well rounded than he is. It certainly isn't as simple as just feinting the TD more.
     
  18. Roman_23

    Roman_23 Green Belt

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    That was straight up gangsta!
    <{natewhut}>
     
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  19. VVarhead

    VVarhead Bullet Belt

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  20. UL

    UL no more yellows Double Yellow Card

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    need the gifs

    cant wasn't worthy staying up till 5am for

    Lee losing to Al, maybe now he'll be a bit more humble
     
  21. ArtOfDrowning

    ArtOfDrowning Lecter Belt

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    Just watched the whole card, some really nice fights.

    I knew Font will smash Pettis. So happy for Barboza to get a win like that, dude is a beast when not fighting a wrestler. He seemed so happy after the fight

    And lol at Kevin losing to Al. Kevin really has no heart, he is just the hammer but when he is the nail then shit goes down really fast. There was a point in the fight where you can just see him break. He will never be a top guy and Khabib would maul him. After one round of GnP by Khabib, Kevin would tap to strikes.

    Al vs Conor seems pretty good. Would like to see it. Can't wait for the next card, it's great top to bottom.
     

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