PBP UFC on Fox 31: Lee vs. Iaquinta 2 - PBP Discussion - 4pm ET/1pm PT/9pm UK

He wanted nothing to do with bjj ace santos on the ground

You mean in the total run time of two minutes that fight took place?

lost twice in practically the same type of fight to a collegiate wrestler in AI

We're calling Al a college wrestler now? The guy has 14 career wins and 7 of them are KO's. QuitYourbullShit.jpg.

He's one of the most famous hitters in the division. Kevin Lee took him down nonchalantly the very first attempt, then took his back, and Al gets saved by the bell. His out wrestled him in virtually every exchange, and gotten back mount three times.

Kevin Lee lost the standup, not the grappling. Styles make fights and Al fought what looked like the best, most technical bout of his career winning a 3-2 decision.


I honestly believe that .... gillespie, makhachev, davi ramos, khabilov are all as good if not better grapplers than Lee.

Heavy eye rolls. I know you don't like American grapplers but lol.


we'll see what the future holds, but I think Lee will continue to struggle with grapplers.

Tony is the champion and so far, nobody knows how to beat him, hence the 11 fight winning streak. Khabib and Tony have to fight to see who the best is.

Bet the house Lee stays on a streak and contends again.
 
Al didn't get saved by shit. Bell or no bell, he proved he can survive that back control all day and eventually get up to win the fight.

This is absurd. In BOTH their fights, he was saved by the bell from back mount and RNC attempts. Out of three goes, he escaped exactly once, the other two times the round ended.


Lee has a lot of work to do. He gets rocked in almost every fight and it's now evident that he slows down against guys who he can't steamroll on the mat. Unless he makes some serious changes, he'll get some big wins but they'll be sandwiched between losses to durable well rounded fighters who push him.

Agreed. Pretty awful fight IQ, doesn't seem to be putting it all together. However, I don't want to take anything away from Al, who I honestly believe elevated himself and looked the best in his career. His strategy was razor sharp and he stayed technical and thoughtful for 25 minutes.

Super impressed with Al and I really wanted him to win big.
 
i blacked out in the 3rd of the Iaquinta fight yesterday, but i just dropped by to say that i called it, Raging Al needs a push!! lets go to the top and fuck everyone
 
Holy. Fucking. Shit. That Barboza/Hooker fight. Caught it late. Bah Gawd.

Yeah, I just got around to watching it now. Holy fuck Hooker is tough. Poor bastard must be hating trying to walk today. 90% of his weight is clearly balls.
 
So about Kevin Lee.

First off I like Kevin lee a lot and with a few fixes I can see him back in the top 5

1. His striking has not evolved into what we thought it could be. He looks almost just a green as he always has with his striking.

2. His takedowns are not top-level takedowns. He uses 100% pure athletism to get his takedown and this causes him to gas.

I think these 2 massive problems can be fixed with a simple camp change. Kevin Lee has all the tools and the athletism he just needs a camp and a coach to help him put it together
 
People questions Lee's heart are just dumb

Dude got cracked hard and often in that fight and he never gave up
 
Someone on a message board telling a fighter who just went 5 rounds to be a man is fucking rich.

Why don't you be a man and get off the fucking internet and into a gym?
Oh snap. I don’t know what to say now
 
You mean in the total run time of two minutes that fight took place?

Yeah, I do.


We're calling Al a college wrestler now? The guy has 14 career wins and 7 of them are KO's. QuitYourbullShit.jpg.

He's one of the most famous hitters in the division. Kevin Lee took him down nonchalantly the very first attempt, then took his back, and Al gets saved by the bell. His out wrestled him in virtually every exchange, and gotten back mount three times.

Yes, AL has collegiate wrestling experience, so I refer to him as a collegiate wrestler. I'm not even arguing that AI is a better wrestler than Lee, I'm arguing that any time Lee faces a guy who can put up real grappling resistance he loses, which AI did and if you disagree than I suggest rewatching the pivotal moment of the fights in round 2 and 5,

A non chalant takedown and back take? so like this?



Or is that the other guy with a grappling background that beat Lee? I can't keep track of them all anymore/

Kevin Lee lost the standup, not the grappling. Styles make fights and Al fought what looked like the best, most technical bout of his career winning a 3-2 decision.

I don't understand how you think AI fought the fight of his life when he literally beat Lee practically the same way in two fights.



Heavy eye rolls. I know you don't like American grapplers but lol.

Tony is the champion and so far, nobody knows how to beat him, hence the 11 fight winning streak. Khabib and Tony have to fight to see who the best is.

Bet the house Lee stays on a streak and contends again.

I do like American grapplers—Frankie Edgar is one of my favorite fighters ever. Also, Tony is not the champion and you know this.


Bet the house that if Lee faces another fighter with above average grappling, he wilts again.
 
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Yes, AL has collegiate wrestling experience, so I refer to him as a collegiate wrestler.

Al isn't by any reasonable definition a wrestler by trade in the sport of MMA. In any event, he wrestled briefly in community college. Lee clearly out wrestled him with ease, and got the very first take down he attempted, passed and back mounted. He out grappled Al.

Lee lost the fight, of course, in the standing exchanges, where Al - who is literally famous for his boxing skills and 50% of his wins are via KO - beat the brakes off him.

It seems obvious Lee has to clean up his striking defense and certainly his fight IQ.


I don't understand how you think AI fought the fight of his life when he literally beat Lee practically the same way in two fights.

Al was more composed and a 5 round fight is a different thing - his fight IQ looked through the roof and he never brawled, but rather stayed technical throughout. I felt that Al showed he elevated himself and it was a marquee performance in his career.



Tony is not the champion and you know this.

He beat RDA, Lee and Pettis all in a row capping a historic 11 fight win streak. He was awarded the belt by putting away Lee. Because the UFC marketing execs decided to strip hoping to sell more PPV buys doesn't change reality.

Once Ferguson and Khabib fight we'll have a unified, undisputed champion. Obviously the two need to meet so we can see who wins.
 
Al isn't by any reasonable definition a wrestler by trade in the sport of MMA. In any event, he wrestled briefly in community college. Lee clearly out wrestled him with ease, and got the very first take down he attempted, passed and back mounted. He out grappled Al.

Lee lost the fight, of course, in the standing exchanges, where Al - who is literally famous for his boxing skills and 50% of his wins are via KO - beat the brakes off him.

It seems obvious Lee has to clean up his striking defense and certainly his fight IQ.




Al was more composed and a 5 round fight is a different thing - his fight IQ looked through the roof and he never brawled, but rather stayed technical throughout. I felt that Al showed he elevated himself and it was a marquee performance in his career.





He beat RDA, Lee and Pettis all in a row capping a historic 11 fight win streak. He was awarded the belt by putting away Lee. Because the UFC marketing machine decided to sell PPV buys doesn't change reality.

Once Ferguson and Khabib fight we'll have a unified, undisputed champion. Obviously the two need to meet so we can see who wins.


We disagree man. Also, I suggest watching the santos fight again. If we follow your own rules of who the better grappler is, then Lee got outgrappled and knocked out in that fight. Look at the nonchalant takedown and back take:



I'm telling you man. He struggles with anyone who puts up grappling resistance. AI didn't need to be the better grappler, he just needed to be a good enough grappler to compete with Lee until Lee wilts. AI was better in the pivotal grappling moment in round 5, though.

Lee is a really good grappler, but he just doesn't belong in the same sentence as khabib and tony. Hell, I think he'd struggle with all the other grapplers I mentioned earlier: makhachev, ramos, gillespie....I'd even pick Gaethje, the non wrestling wrestler, to shut lee down.
I imagine Lee's next fight will be against a guy like pettis, though, so Lee won't need to worry about this for a bit.

Lee needs to work on his game.
 
AI didn't need to be the better grappler, he just needed to be a good enough grappler to compete with Lee .

Al also needed to be the far, far better striker, which is where the fight was won in a 3-2 decision. Take away the huge gap in striking defense and you have a landslide for Kevin.

If Lee employed better fight IQ he wouldn't have waited until he did for the first take down, which he got easily. Picking up one more round in a winnable fight is an example of bad strategy and game day execution.

Al on the other hand fought his perfect fight and stuck with the right plan.
 
Al also needed to be the far, far better striker, which is where the fight was won in a 3-2 decision. Take away the huge gap in striking defense and you have a landslide for Kevin.

If Lee employed better fight IQ he wouldn't have waited until he did for the first take down, which he got easily. Picking up one more round in a winnable fight is an example of bad strategy and game day execution.

Al on the other hand fought his perfect fight and stuck with the right plan.

Well, If he went for the takedown earlier then he would have started failing on take downs earlier and might not have won round 3. AI has shown in two fights now that he can stop Lee's takedowns once lee starts to fade. It seemed clear to me that Lee was trying to pace himself in there.

I just think Lee has a lot of work to do with mixing everything together. His cardio is an asterisk for me too.
 
Dwight Grant is 34 but looks and sounds like a 16 year old.
 
What I don't understand is how it took almost 2 hours for the main event to start seeing as there were only 4 fights on the main card, and the first fight ended early in the first round.
 
“Al was saved by the bell”

Is the same as me saying
“Kevin was saved by the bell” when al was T’ing off on him
 
you're confusing it with round 2.
Round 3 wasn't dominant by Lee, at all. Rewatch it.

Round 2 Lee completed a TD, did minimal damage...and with over 2 minutes left in the round Al worked his way back to his feet and proceeded to outstrike Lee for the remaining 2+ minutes of the round.

In round 3, Lee took down Al with 2 1/2-3 minutes left in the round, and controlled him for the rest of the round. You were the one confusing the rounds.
 
This fight is one of the cases in which the judges have to decide between striking and grappling. It was clear that Lee was better at grappling and Al was the man when they were striking.
 
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