UFC Has Lost All Credibility With RR/WMMA

[Rittsy]

Not at all, I am all for women's sports. It is just that I can understand that there is going to be a need for realism in evaluating women's sports and evaluating, for example, why the WBNA has dozens of fans as opposed to dozens of millions for the NBA and why women's soccer only gets any kind of interest once every four years. I would embrace my daughters doing any sport to the best of their abilities; I would just hope that they don't get the misconception that their sport will necessarily be seen by most as being as legit as men in the same sport. Reality is, it won't.

You're arguing Rousey isn't popular or legit (whatever that means)...but she is. The money she makes, the attention she gets, the media she does, the outside interest she generates is evidence of this. She probably can't beat Top 10 male competitors, but she doesn't need to to be 'legit'. She just needs to be the best at what she does in her division, just like every other sportsman in the world.

Serena Williams; great tennis player. One of the best in the world, makes millions, very popular..probably not going to beat a top 10 male any time soon though. Does that 'illigitimise' her as a tennis player?

Plenty of people see these women as 'legit'. It seems there's just a select group who need to disprove them.

 

[emax]

Brock Lesnar dominated with less skills than Ronda and people were all over his nuts.

Ronda fights in a division with more credential fighters than the heavyweight division.

Not true, he was a NCAA champion and, analyzing how legit the competition is for NCAA Div 1 men's wreslting vs women's Judo, that means if anything Lesnar's grappling was more legit than Ronda's and so was his striking. Besides, that was one of the low points of the HW division in the UFC; the HW division quickly grew out of that phase to where one needs to be a true MMA titan like Cain to dominate.

It's so legit that a pro wrestler became the HW champion with a 2-1 record.

I was specifically talking about men's wrestling in that post, not men's MMA. As for your contention, see above.

 

[emax]

You're arguing Rousey isn't popular or legit (whatever that means)...but she is. The money she makes, the attention she gets, the media she does, the outside interest she generates is evidence of this. She probably can't beat Top 10 male competitors, but she doesn't need to to be 'legit'. She just needs to be the best at what she does in her division, just like every other sportsman in the world.

Serena Williams; great tennis player. One of the best in the world, makes millions, very popular..probably not going to beat a top 10 male any time soon though. Does that 'illigitimise' her as a tennis player?

Plenty of people see these women as 'legit'. It seems there's just a select group who need to disprove them.

Gotta hand it to you since I cannot really argue with this. But the sensationalism surrounding Rousey's abilities is no less annoying and it is still becoming less and less exciting seeing her fights and if these keeps up, it still seems clear that any interest in WMMA outside or Rousey will pretty much be nonexistant.

 

[emax]

Don't waste your time. I bet the same people creamed themselves when Cyborg was beating on Muxlow and Finney. Women that would lose to every single opponent Ronda has fought.

I don;t think they would be invested either way. All of this stuff people are saying about Rousey, they would easily say about Cyborg just as quickly, maybe more so given her rep as a cheater. However, Rousey is the one who gets all the obscene amount of attention and speculation about how she is a new sort of Tyson or Bruce Lee.

 

[ermac88]

Not true, he was a NCAA champion and, analyzing how legit the competition is for NCAA Div 1 men's wreslting vs women's Judo, that means if anything Lesnar's grappling was more legit than Ronda's and so was his striking. Besides, that was one of the low points of the HW division in the UFC; the HW division quickly grew out of that phase to where one needs to be a true MMA titan like Cain to dominate.



I was specifically talking about men's wrestling in that post, not men's MMA. As for your contention, see above.

Are you comparing collegiate wrestling to olympic class medalist?
really?

 

[flanellograf]

Actually, I think many female Judoka at the Olympic caliber would have the same success Rousey has. For the first 8 fights Rousey's MMA game was 90 - 95 % simply using her Judo skills - many women who medaled in Judo at the Olympics could have easily done the same. And McMann's wrestling was legit but her ability to use it in MMA was not that great; her struggle to narrowly get by Baszler was proof of that.
.

That's simply not true. Few Judokas specialize in newaza, and especially armbars, to the degree that she has. Also, there are grip-heavy/hand fighting styles in Judo that just do not translate well to mma. She had the perfect game, and mental disposition, to transition into mma.
Now, since the overall level of wmma is trailing a couple of years behind, I'm sure many of them could do well, but very few would do nearly as well as Ronda has.

 

[Le Smish Smosh**]

Haters just won't give up

 

[The Judas Pig]

Dana trying so hard to establish her as a superstar with subpar competition has lost all credibility with me. Anyone with half a brain knew Davis had no chance.

But you were ok with chael fighting Jones? You think that was credible?

 

[Rittsy]

Gotta hand it to you since I cannot really argue with this. But the sensationalism surrounding Rousey's abilities is no less annoying and it is still becoming less and less exciting seeing her fights and if these keeps up, it still seems clear that any interest in WMMA outside or Rousey will pretty much be nonexistant.

You can argue about the marketing all you want, but that does nothing to de-legitimise what she's accomplished in her division.

People like her, people hate her.

The UFC is marketing her because she's willing to put herself out there and she draws more attention than most champions. You look at the traffic on most MMA/Boxing websites and a few people draw attention: Jones, Mayweather, Rousey, Pacquiao and major controversies. That's why she's reported on so much; I mean look at this forum, everything Rousey says/does generates 30 page threads, 1/3 of people attacking her, 1/3 defending her, 1/3 discussing what is actually going on. When Straw-weight starts the UFC is going to try to market that champion in the same way; it'll just depend on how receptive she is to the attention.

 

[emax]

Are you comparing collegiate wrestling to olympic class medalist?
really?

Male NCAA Div 1 wrestlers >>>>>>> female Olympic Judoka in terms of the depth of the talent pool and level of competition. What was ridiculous was someone saying Rousey was a better grappler than Sonnen or had better MMA skills than Lesnar, implying that Rousey was somehow a better striker or grappler than Lesnar. I cannot see how anyone could even try and contend that Rousey was somehow a better gtappler than Sonnen or Lesnar. THAT's just madness.

 

[ChardeeMcDennis]

You're arguing Rousey isn't popular or legit (whatever that means)...but she is. The money she makes, the attention she gets, the media she does, the outside interest she generates is evidence of this. She probably can't beat Top 10 male competitors, but she doesn't need to to be 'legit'. She just needs to be the best at what she does in her division, just like every other sportsman in the world.

Serena Williams; great tennis player. One of the best in the world, makes millions, very popular..probably not going to beat a top 10 male any time soon though. Does that 'illigitimise' her as a tennis player?

Plenty of people see these women as 'legit'. It seems there's just a select group who need to disprove them.

Isn't tennis like the only sport where males have zero advantage?

 

[The Judas Pig]

LOL @ how pissy emax is getting, let the hate flow.

 

[Dragonseeker]

Actually, I think many female Judoka at the Olympic caliber would have the same success Rousey has. For the first 8 fights Rousey's MMA game was 90 - 95 % simply using her Judo skills - many women who medaled in Judo at the Olympics could have easily done the same. And McMann's wrestling was legit but her ability to use it in MMA was not that great; her struggle to narrowly get by Baszler was proof of that.

Rousey the female Cormier? Again, one has to ask, I really hope that was a joke. Placing Rousey at the same level as Cormier in terms of MMA ability and ability to apply striking and grappling to MMA is hilariously stupid. Cormier's striking is at Manny Pacquaios' level next to Rousey and as far as grappling goes, Cormier took 4th at the Olympics and his competition was many orders of magnitude steeper than what Rousey faced at the Olympics. And Rousey being a better grappler than Sonnen? WHAT? When you consider how steep Sonnen's competition was in wrestling next to Rousey's in Judo, how is it not obvious that Sonnen's credentials are infintely better than Rousey's Judo credentials. And Sonnen for most of his career was better at MMA grappling, MMA ground fighting and of course striking and clinch fighting than Rousey ever was.

You can win a Judo match without ever tossing your opponent. Not every Judo champion focuses so much on the armbar. Ronda is very uniquely adapted to MMA. Her style of Judo was made for MMA. There are a lot of Judoka in the Olympics that focus more on strategy just pure domination and finishes. Again, heck of a lot of Judoka in the Olympics would fail in MMA. If it is so easy, you will have Olympic girls lining up to do it. McMann struggled with Baszler because her BJJ defense is not nearly as good as her wrestling, not because her wrestling doesn't translate. She is like Chael Sonnen but more cautious. She just need more submission grappling experience.

Ronda is Cormier because like Cormier, she uses her grappling with a dominant effect. She is hand and shoulders above nearly everyone else in the division when it comes to clinching and getting the fight to the ground. That is why she is Cormier of WMMA. As for Sonnen, you actually need an explanation? She has better takedowns, won a medal in the olympics in her sport, and submitted every one of her opponents up until her last two fights. She also has demostrated more variety of throws, and has threaten fighters from top and bottom.

The question is, what has Chael done to be a better grappler than Ronda?

 

[inz0mn1ak]

Haters trying so desperately to downplay the success of WMMA.

If it was only about Roussey, the UFC woudn't be adding another WMMA division. A division, obviously, that Roussey won't be competing in.

There is no down play, womens MMA is still very weak. Rousey might have more talent than some of these other women, but the competition is far and few between due to the fact its still in its infancy. If womens MMA takes off, it will be 10 years before they start seeing really headway in competition.

15 years agi in Mens MMA didnt have the competition it has today, so would it be fair to say that Rickson Gracie is the best of all time because he had 11 finishes and went undefeated, this will hold true for ronda, she may be a pioneer but we have yet to see the best of womens MMA

 

[Dragonseeker]

Male NCAA Div 1 wrestlers >>>>>>> female Olympic Judoka in terms of the depth of the talent pool and level of competition. What was ridiculous was someone saying Rousey was a better grappler than Sonnen or had better MMA skills than Lesnar, implying that Rousey was somehow a better striker or grappler than Lesnar. I cannot see how anyone could even try and contend that Rousey was somehow a better gtappler than Sonnen or Lesnar. THAT's just madness.

Brock and Chael has done what to show they are better at grappling in MMA?

Ronda has more submissions, better takedown rates, better takedown variety, and has threaten people on the bottom and on top.

Also, Ronda has way more striking skills than Brock. Ronda finished two girls, one with her hands and one with her knee.

Has Lesnar ever threatened anyone with a knee?

 

[Rittsy]

Isn't tennis like the only sport where males have zero advantage?

Nah. There's still a speed/power/endurance advantage. There's been a few 'battle of the sexes' events, each one I think the woman was defeated. Statistically women also lag behind.

But that doesn't discredit the achievements nor does it mean people don't like watching Women's tennis. Men are born with certain physical advantages no amount of training can overcome (at the top level I mean; I'm sure Serena Williams could beat my ass pretty soundly).

 

[kingJohn]

You people sound so fucking ridiculous

Grow up. Shes fighting the best competition there is (Besides Holm and Cyborg) but shes just on another level

Yall had no problem when Anderson smashed high level opponents but when an outspoken woman does it yall get butthurt

Grow up

A lot of people were criticizing the competition Silva faced @ MW when he was champion tbh. Nobody is saying Ronda isn't legit, but to say the rest of the 135 division id legit competition is crazy, this is Royce Gracie in the first UFCs level of competition. There's nobody in the UFC outside of maybe Sara McMann (which was an early stoppage) who is a legit challenge for her. Dana White needs to stop playing and bring over Cyborg already. Have her debut @ 135 on the same card as Rousey and Zingano, if Cyborg does well build her up as the biggest challenge to Rousey, and it will sell.

 

[Genghis84]

Not true, he was a NCAA champion and, analyzing how legit the competition is for NCAA Div 1 men's wreslting vs women's Judo, that means if anything Lesnar's grappling was more legit than Ronda's and so was his striking. Besides, that was one of the low points of the HW division in the UFC; the HW division quickly grew out of that phase to where one needs to be a true MMA titan like Cain to dominate.



I was specifically talking about men's wrestling in that post, not men's MMA. As for your contention, see above.

Lesnar was fast tracked the title because of his pro wrestling fame. It had nothing to do with his wrestling pedigree. And it's not like his MMA grappling was anything to write home about either. Brock was getting controlled by a fossil who was 50+ pounds lighter, and wasn't even competitive against Cain outside his one meaningless take down.

 

[branchtan]

she's fighting through the entire top ten, you dummy. are they supposed to create newer, tougher fighter robots in a lab or something?

Nah but signing Cyborgg and offering Holly Holm more than 15k would be a start.

 

[kingJohn]

Isn't tennis like the only sport where males have zero advantage?

http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/261w8d/til_in_1998_serena_and_venus_williams_said_they/