UFC Has Lost All Credibility With RR/WMMA

[emax]

Lesnar was fast tracked the title because of his pro wrestling fame. It had nothing to do with his wrestling pedigree. And it's not like his MMA grappling was anything to write home about either. Brock was getting controlled by a fossil who was 50+ pounds lighter, and wasn't even competitive against Cain outside his one meaningless take down.

That sort of proves part of my point for me, you see, you mentioned how Brock was getting controlled by a "fossil who was 50 pounds lighter". That says nothing about Lesnar's MMA grappling relative to Ronda's. That proves just how much less legit WMMA is than its male counterpart - Lesnar was a more powerful grappler in MMA than Ronda, way more, but struggled more in dealing with a "50 year old fossil who was 50+ pounds lighter" than Ronda ever has in MMA. And that is because that 50 year old fossil was still way more legit competition than any of Ronda's pro opponents, which is why he challenged Lesnar way more than any of Ronda's opponents have.

Brock and Chael has done what to show they are better at grappling in MMA?

Ronda has more submissions, better takedown rates, better takedown variety, and has threaten people on the bottom and on top.

Also, Ronda has way more striking skills than Brock. Ronda finished two girls, one with her hands and one with her knee.

Has Lesnar ever threatened anyone with a knee?

They have gotten takedowns against fighters who are over 10 x more capable of defending TDS in an MMA setting than any of Ronda's opponents for starters. They don't have the same takedown rates as Ronda in MMA because they were going up against athletes of an infinitely higher caliber. However, they 10 x better at the takedowns they relied on most than Ronda was at the takedowns she relied on most. If Sonnen were fighting opponents of Rousey's caliber, he would have gotten as many easy takedowns and finishes. Ditto Lesnar. The takedowns and submissions Sonnen got against guys like Okami, Anderson in the first fight, prime Marquardt and even Brian Stann are worth infinitely more than the takedowns Rousey got against opponents so laughably out of their league. Plus, Sonnen has extensive experience in Greco Roman and Freestyle, so basic understanding of wrestling tells us that it is not even correct to say Ronda has better takedown variety than Sonnen. He didn't use as many kinds of TDs as Ronda did in MMA because he was facing much more legit opposition who could prevent him from doing so. But he had the same variety of TDs and was infinitely better at using those TDs.



And Ronda and Cormier both use their grappling in MMA to dominant effect, but one has to be truly great at MMA grappling and mixing grappling with clinching and striking and the other does not. That is why calling Ronda the Cormier of MMA is actually sort of a real insult to Cormier.

 

[emax]

LOL @ how pissy emax is getting, let the hate flow.

It wasn't that bad until I read people seriously suggesting Ronda is in the same category of MMA fighters as Cormier or was a better grappler than Sonnen or Lesnar or that she has a better MMA resume than Shogun. That is the kind of stuff that sends MMA fans over the top and, yes, occasionally makes us wish this WMMA thing just, never happened.

 

[The Judas Pig]

It wasn't that bad until I read people seriously suggesting Ronda is in the same category of MMA fighters as Cormier or was a better grappler than Sonnen or Lesnar or that she has a better MMA resume than Shogun. That is the kind of stuff that sends MMA fans over the top and, yes, occasionally makes us wish this WMMA thing just, never happened.

Did you bitch this much when DC fought a barista or when Anderson fought Lutter, Cote, laites (sp?) or bonnar? Or when Jones fought chael or when GSp fought Hardy?

 

[emax]

Did you bitch this much when DC fought a barista or when Anderson fought Lutter, Cote, laites (sp?) or bonnar? Or when Jones fought chael or when GSp fought Hardy?

DC's fight with a barista was one weak opponent, his other major fights were all against opposition that was 100x more legit than Ronda's. Also, Bonnar, Lutter, Coter and Laites are more legit than most of all of Ronda's competition, as is Hardy. And in fact, their fights with Anderson and GSP actually looked like close, competitive fights next to Ronda's 10 pro fights, so there's that too. It is the hysteria and the obscene celebrations and placing Ronda somehow in the same category as a Sonnen, Lesnar or Cormier, which to me personally is borderline fighter bashing, that gets to all of us. And as far as the hate being because Ronda is outspoken, I mean, look, if Nick Diaz, whom Ronda has emulated ever since being in MMA fighter, was the UFC champ he would also be getting a ton of the derision Ronda gets. So the guy who insists it is only about Ronda being a woman is also wrong, though her being a woman is why her road to being such a dominant fighter in her division was a complete walk in the park next to that of Aldo, Cain, Jones, GSP or Anderson.

 

[Le Smish Smosh**]

Nah but signing Cyborgg and offering Holly Holm more than 15k would be a start.

Can you please stop, Cyborg had a ufc contract.. she asked to be released

 

[Dragonseeker]

They have gotten takedowns against fighters who are over 10 x more capable of defending TDS in an MMA setting than any of Ronda's opponents for starters. They don't have the same takedown rates as Ronda in MMA because they were going up against athletes of an infinitely higher caliber. However, they 10 x better at the takedowns they relied on most than Ronda was at the takedowns she relied on most.

Yeah, because Olympic level Judo has nobody that can stop a takedown. Ronda has gotten takedowns over people that spent their entire life training to stop one at the highest level. Your statement is nothing but fabricated statistics that has no evidence to support. Ronda's opponents were either Olympians, or fighters who trained in the same camp as male fighters. Kaufman trained with Greg Jackson and Davis trains with team Alpha Male. But everyone male fighter that Chael fought, including all the cans that he has beaten have 10x the takedown defense? It is one of those, whatever you want to believe statements. You basically have nothing.

And don't even get me started on Brock. His takedowns in MMA relies on strength more than anything. He has never shown any sort of dominance in positional grappling, has been submitted, and has never demonstrated his bottom game. I mean, Ronda has struck more fear into her opponents in five fights than Brock did in his entire career when it comes to submissions.

If Sonnen were fighting opponents of Rousey's caliber, he would have gotten as many easy takedowns and finishes. Ditto Lesnar. The takedowns and submissions Sonnen got against guys like Okami, Anderson in the first fight, prime Marquardt and even Brian Stann are worth infinitely more than the takedowns Rousey got against opponents so laughably out of their league.

Yeah right. Brian Stann didn't even know how to grapple. At least Davis was a black belt. And he didn't submit Okami, he was almost submitted by a kimura. Anderson triangle choked him out, as did Maia, Griffin and Sobral. He was also armbarred by Filho. Shogun was the only black belt he took down and submitted and Shogun is just as bad in TDD as anybody.

Ronda has threatened more submissions and was more dominate than Chael ever was. Ronda can actually fight on the bottom. When was the last time Chael fought on the bottom?

Plus, Sonnen has extensive experience in Greco Roman and Freestyle, so basic understanding of wrestling tells us that it is not even correct to say Ronda has better takedown variety than Sonnen. He didn't use as many kinds of TDs as Ronda did in MMA because he was facing much more legit opposition who could prevent him from doing so. But he had the same variety of TDs and was infinitely better at using those TDs.

Right. So his greatest skill is "higher competition."

If I wrestle for a year and enter MMA, I automatically have higher level grappling than Ronda because of my "higher competition."

Again, you have nothing really.

Ronda has demonstrated her variety of grappling skills. So far, Chael only has you.

And Ronda and Cormier both use their grappling in MMA to dominant effect, but one has to be truly great at MMA grappling and mixing grappling with clinching and striking and the other does not. That is why calling Ronda the Cormier of MMA is actually sort of a real insult to Cormier.

Because Ronda doesn't mix grappling with clinching and striking? What? If anything, Ronda has shown far more of her grappling than Cormier.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Ok, LOL. Davis got ko'ed by forehead shots from a 135 pound female. Ok. If you're getting ko'ed by forehead punches by a 135 pound person in a schoolyard headlock. You probably shouldn't fight, seeing that your chin is nonexistent.

Schoolyard headlock? That was a legit throw.

 

[The Judas Pig]

DC's fight with a barista was one weak opponent, his other major fights were all against opposition that was 100x more legit than Ronda's. Also, Bonnar, Lutter, Coter and Laites are more legit than most of all of Ronda's competition, as is Hardy. And in fact, their fights with Anderson and GSP actually looked like close, competitive fights next to Ronda's 10 pro fights, so there's that too. It is the hysteria and the obscene celebrations and placing Ronda somehow in the same category as a Sonnen, Lesnar or Cormier, which to me personally is borderline fighter bashing, that gets to all of us. And as far as the hate being because Ronda is outspoken, I mean, look, if Nick Diaz, whom Ronda has emulated ever since being in MMA fighter, was the UFC champ he would also be getting a ton of the derision Ronda gets. So the guy who insists it is only about Ronda being a woman is also wrong, though her being a woman is why her road to being such a dominant fighter in her division was a complete walk in the park next to that of Aldo, Cain, Jones, GSP or Anderson.

No matter what she does people like you won't be happy, the fact that she brings good media attention to the sport should ve enough for mma fans to embrace her imo.

 

[JohnSouth]

There's one way to settle all this...Honda fights a man her weight.

The rest of WMMA is bs so we may as well merge the two and end all this speculation.

 

[JohnSouth]

Brock and Chael has done what to show they are better at grappling in MMA?

Ronda has more submissions, better takedown rates, better takedown variety, and has threaten people on the bottom and on top.

Also, Ronda has way more striking skills than Brock. Ronda finished two girls, one with her hands and one with her knee.

Has Lesnar ever threatened anyone with a knee?

That kind of thinking goes off the rails because we are not comparing apples to apples here.

Also when people try to say a female fighter is better than a male fighter or female fighters are saying they don't get the respect they THINK they deserve...

That is very weak case, again, have her fight Uriah Faber but we know how that story ends.

 

[Durruti]

UFC has lost all credibility putting Uriah Hall-Tiago Santos in a main card but cutting Yushin Okami

 

[lapollarecords]

Foock off

 

[Genghis84]

That sort of proves part of my point for me, you see, you mentioned how Brock was getting controlled by a "fossil who was 50 pounds lighter". That says nothing about Lesnar's MMA grappling relative to Ronda's. That proves just how much less legit WMMA is than its male counterpart - Lesnar was a more powerful grappler in MMA than Ronda, way more, but struggled more in dealing with a "50 year old fossil who was 50+ pounds lighter" than Ronda ever has in MMA. And that is because that 50 year old fossil was still way more legit competition than any of Ronda's pro opponents, which is why he challenged Lesnar way more than any of Ronda's opponents have.

It doesn't prove your point. Brock still came in and beat guys with tons more MMA experience. And his reign as champ was still longer than longtime vets like Couture, Mir, Barnett, etc. It was even longer than JDS' reign, and he's said to be one of the best HWs in history.

And Brock is not even the most obvious example of you overrating the talent on the men's side. How about Fedor barely even training for the Arlovski fight, and still knocking him out in the first round? How about Arona dominating Fedor (the supposed GOAT) with nothing but top control? Arona didn't even have any striking outside of his leg kicks and had some of the worst striking defense ever. Yet he was able to hang with some of the best in MMA. Shields is another top guy who has no striking to speak of (or athleticism). How about Fitch? Just a try hard guy who wins because of grappling and toughness. How about Tim Sylvia? He was a lumbering oaf that dominated the HW division longer than anybody else with nothing more than a jab. The examples are endless.

 

[BigMuffler]

Shes a chick stfu.

Not a normal one.

SUPER HUMAN.

 

[Zanmato]

dana's prophecy was correct, there's just no competition. i'll still be quite excited to tune into ronda beating up (comparative) chumps any time she's on a card but once she goes, what's left?

 

[Unbreakabull]

well the sagging numbers, shitty ratings and lower buyrates say you're wrong

business has never been better

 

[Perrichet]

Didn't even watch the fight. WMMA is embarrassing

 

[Zayne11293]

Only the Rousey super fans and white knights believe she's a true superstar. By herself she doesn't bring in PPV numbers like Silva Bones GSP and Brock do and did in the past and she likely never will. Is she a superstar in WMMA? Yes, but not in the overall landscape of MMA.

 

[Zanmato]

Only the Rousey super fans and white knights believe she's a true superstar. By herself she doesn't bring in PPV numbers like Silva Bones GSP and Brock do and did in the past and she likely never will. Is she a superstar in WMMA? Yes, but not in the overall landscape of MMA.

is there only room for 4 super-stars in the world (of MMA)?

 

[Maryse]

JDS and the HW division lost all credibility when he KO'd Cain in a minute.

Anderson Silva and the MW division lost all credibility when a mid level striker KO'd him.