Discussion in 'MMA Betting Discussion' started by Naught2Sixty, May 13, 2018.
Of course. R3 @ 19
Re Punk/Jackson, when you get 2 low level guys where one is a pure striker with no power and the other is a grappler, the grappler usually controls the fight. Not suggesting a bet on this fight but just saying be cautious if you're loading up on Jackson.
I put him on a parlay with Holly and Claudia + open selections.
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@TheOneTrueKing and others.
Your AV is funny af, is that the moose and why did he rip (his?) flag off?
I would put the house on the worst featherweight on the roster to absolutely wreck punk, but after watching Jackson's 45 seconds of shame, I don't know.
I just entered, I'm wicked_elcucuy
Yes it's him, and that's his brother with the flag. He just gets annoyed because the brother is always groping him in the cage. There was a thread on it in awhile back with a bunch of different gifs of Moose pushing the brother away inside the cage.
I watched some Jackson's boxing/kickboxing fights on youtube. He's not very good, but I think he'll probably TKO CM Punk.
Just need 1 more and we're good to go.
Here's the thread:
Calling Punk a "grappler" is ridiculous though imo. Basically we are calling him a grappler because he trained a bit of BJJ for a few years prior to entering the UFC, and because what little we've seen of his training striking has looked so awful we are just sort of figuring "well, guess he's ahh... a grappler?" We have no clue if he has any chance of even getting the fight to the mat to begin with, and if he does we have no idea if he will even have any sort of advantage there.
I would say the normal "striker vs grappler" rules don't apply here.
I'd call him a grappler before I call him a striker that's for sure. WWE ain't no amateur wrestling that's also for sure but he has done WWE for a bunch of years and at least maneuvered big bodies around for years regularly. That can't be swept under the rug. I haven't trained any wrestling, ever, and if I was going to wrestle CM Punk pre his UFC sejour i'm sure he would've wrestlefucked me.
Now, I do realise how ridiculous it is comparing Joe Schmo with zero wrestling versus CM Punk but it's just to make the point that I definitely see him as a grappler firsthand. What really confuses me is that he really seems to focus on his striking and in the Mickey Gall fight seemed to have this fantasy about KOing him on the feet, and not doing any wrestling whatsoever.. So he might be a striker in his own head..
This is what I’m thinking too. People can learn a good ground game in a short period of time and Punk has prolly been training pretty hard on that since that Gall fight. Also, boxers tend to get overconfident in striking and just practice TDD. When they hit the ground they have no idea how to defend or get up and waste all their energy doing dumb techniques.
If Punk’s a 2:1 dog still I’ll prolly put $100 on it even though I have no good assessment of either fighter other than the above.
Youre not seriously putting money on cm punk?
As someone who trained with pro fighters and competed in grappling tourneys for almost 6 years and did moderately well, I will tell you that using his WWE background as any sort of basis for being a "grappler" is ludicrous.
Basically we have people looking at it as though if your striking sucks, you must be a grappler. There are certain times, very likely this one, where you are neither. You are a 40 year old former pro wrestler who used his fame to get a crack at the top MMA org in the world. I don't begrudge him it, good for him. But being in the UFC and having horrendous striking doesn't in any way make you a "grappler".
Is it possible he proves me wrong and shows that his grappling is at least good enough to handle a guy like Jackson? Sure, it's possible. But the next shred of evidence supporting he'll do it that will be the first I've seen.
Oh, and the Gall fight? LOL Punk's ONLY chance was landing some 1 in a million haymaker. Of course he wasn't going to try to use wrestling LOL. Gall is a legit grappler, competing and doing well vs the best guys on the planet. Punk had zero chance the second that fight hit the mat. Even if by some miracle Gall had tripped and Punk landed on top of him, Punk would have been subbed or swept instantly and clowned the exact same way he was. There was a very good reason Punk didn't do "any wrestling whatsoever" vs Gall. Because Gall is a real grappler, and Punk isn't.
Okey, I might be overestimating the WWE thing. As a scandinavian I have never laid eyes on WWE and I guess I assumed that they were doing some sort of wrestling.
You are going to bet Punk based on the fact you think he can learn a good ground game in a short amount of time, and he's been training hard?
SMH, okay man...BOL to ya but I don't have words to say how wrong I think that rationale is.
They do choreographed moves. They are athletic and take strength, skill, etc. But it is SO different maneuvering someone in a direction they don't want to go. Or baiting them to move where you want them. The nuances of real grappling take LONG time to become good at.
And here's the other thing: If Punk was some sort of uber-athlete that could just fall back on pure athleticism that would be one thing. With 2 guys this caliber, grappling will often not come down to technique (because neither is very good) but to sheer athletic ability. Punk is **probably** a better technical grappler than Jackson (and I'm only basing that on that he's trained grappling longer and trains full time now). But the skill gap in grappling is likely fairly small, and with low level guys like this that gap won't usually matter. It will just be two sub par guys who are worse athletes than almost everyone on the UFC roster who both use poor technique. That's IF the fight hits the mat.
But standing, we have Jackson who at least has boxing and kickboxing experience and has KO'd some bums. We know that while it's a striking match, Jackson has a decent edge. We don't know if Punk has any chance of getting it to the mat (he might, but we've never seen him even attempt one TD in an MMA fight have we?). And if he somehow does, we have no idea if he really will have enough of an edge on the mat (or any edge at all honestly) to allow him to win that part of the fight.
How could anyone bet on Punk here? I don't understand it. I can see passing for sure if you don't think Jackson just blasts Punk like I think he will. But I cannot see putting one dollar on Punk.
whats up with Holm odds plummeting?
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