UFC 225 - Whittaker vs Romero 2 - Chicago

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They do choreographed moves. They are athletic and take strength, skill, etc. But it is SO different maneuvering someone in a direction they don't want to go. Or baiting them to move where you want them. The nuances of real grappling take LONG time to become good at.

And here's the other thing: If Punk was some sort of uber-athlete that could just fall back on pure athleticism that would be one thing. With 2 guys this caliber, grappling will often not come down to technique (because neither is very good) but to sheer athletic ability. Punk is **probably** a better technical grappler than Jackson (and I'm only basing that on that he's trained grappling longer and trains full time now). But the skill gap in grappling is likely fairly small, and with low level guys like this that gap won't usually matter. It will just be two sub par guys who are worse athletes than almost everyone on the UFC roster who both use poor technique. That's IF the fight hits the mat.

But standing, we have Jackson who at least has boxing and kickboxing experience and has KO'd some bums. We know that while it's a striking match, Jackson has a decent edge. We don't know if Punk has any chance of getting it to the mat (he might, but we've never seen him even attempt one TD in an MMA fight have we?). And if he somehow does, we have no idea if he really will have enough of an edge on the mat (or any edge at all honestly) to allow him to win that part of the fight.

How could anyone bet on Punk here? I don't understand it. I can see passing for sure if you don't think Jackson just blasts Punk like I think he will. But I cannot see putting one dollar on Punk.
No one is asking Punk to take down and dominate a UFC fighter. Jackson really sucks and isn’t UFC level either. He’s a camera man FFS.
 
whats up with Holm odds plummeting?

Some of it will be Megan's size at the staredown along with all her tats. Not sure how many people will actually bet based on that, but there's always some...
 
Some of it will be Megan's size at the staredown along with all her tats. Not sure how many people will actually bet based on that, but there's always some...

i noticed a lot of the larger fighters got bet after staredowns.
 
i feel filthy but at pick 'em odds coulter might actually be a great bet.
 
Some of it will be Megan's size at the staredown along with all her tats. Not sure how many people will actually bet based on that, but there's always some...
It's a 10 point shift in odds for every tattoo, right?
 
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No one is asking Punk to take down and dominate a UFC fighter. Jackson really sucks and isn’t UFC level either. He’s a camera man FFS.

Right, but who have you EVER seen Punk take down or control? I don't mean UFC caliber. I mean regional level guy. I mean even another 40 year old guy who goes the the MMA gym to train because he wants to stay in shape. I mean ANYONE. I have (and I think this is true of everyone here unless there's footage I've missed) literally never seen Punk complete one TD or do anything positive in any sort of actual combat sport situation. That's kinda my point. There's this belief that it's "grappler vs striker", but where is the evidence that Punk has the skills to compete with (let alone beat) even a bad MMA fighter?

At least with Jackson we have SOME evidence that in one part of the game, he's capable of taking out scrubs. He's shown it. With Punk, there's literally not one shred of evidence that he can take down another grown man that doesn't want to be taken down, even a low level guy like Jackson. I'm not saying I know for sure Punk has no chance of doing it, I'm saying he's never shown one thing to suggest he can even function in an actual fight. Look at the initial punch he was going to throw vs Gall. He basically stopped mid punch as Gall drove forward for the TD because he had no clue what to do.

IDK, before I would consider a bet on a guy I'd want to see one example at least that he has any clue at all what to do in an actual fight. Even against a total scrub. Punk has not provided that evidence. Jackson has.
 
More money keeps coming in on Pettis, do people think he has improved his TDD and getting off of the ground? I'm a little skeptical of it.
 
Right, but who have you EVER seen Punk take down or control? I don't mean UFC caliber. I mean regional level guy. I mean even another 40 year old guy who goes the the MMA gym to train because he wants to stay in shape. I mean ANYONE. I have (and I think this is true of everyone here unless there's footage I've missed) literally never seen Punk complete one TD or do anything positive in any sort of actual combat sport situation. That's kinda my point. There's this belief that it's "grappler vs striker", but where is the evidence that Punk has the skills to compete with (let alone beat) even a bad MMA fighter?

At least with Jackson we have SOME evidence that in one part of the game, he's capable of taking out scrubs. He's shown it. With Punk, there's literally not one shred of evidence that he can take down another grown man that doesn't want to be taken down, even a low level guy like Jackson. I'm not saying I know for sure Punk has no chance of doing it, I'm saying he's never shown one thing to suggest he can even function in an actual fight. Look at the initial punch he was going to throw vs Gall. He basically stopped mid punch as Gall drove forward for the TD because he had no clue what to do.

IDK, before I would consider a bet on a guy I'd want to see one example at least that he has any clue at all what to do in an actual fight. Even against a total scrub. Punk has not provided that evidence. Jackson has.

This is a fight between two bum level guys that are prob the worst guys in their respective gyms. Were told that Punk has been training at a good camp. Could they conceivably put together a game plan to win this fight through grappling? Sure. Is it a good idea to bet heavy on (essentially) a hand picked bum for CM, to fight in CM’s hometown, w the UFC ultimately having more to gain from CM’s win than his loss? Probably not. I won’t say this fight is rigged but are we 100% certain Jackson won’t take a dive here? I mean, I don’t think the guy has any realistic MMA aspirations like Gall does.

I threw a flier on CM by sub but anyone who goes heavy on Jackson and loses Bc of some fuckery can’t complain imo
 
People seriously betting Bektic here even after he climbed over -200, then to -220, now -240??

I don't get it. I can see favoring him a little over Lamas, but this is nuts. So wish I'd have waited on Lamas. My odds suck, I have +160, +190, +200. Ugh.
 
This is a fight between two bum level guys that are prob the worst guys in their respective gyms. Were told that Punk has been training at a good camp. Could they conceivably put together a game plan to win this fight through grappling? Sure. Is it a good idea to bet heavy on (essentially) a hand picked bum for CM, to fight in CM’s hometown, w the UFC ultimately having more to gain from CM’s win than his loss? Probably not. I won’t say this fight is rigged but are we 100% certain Jackson won’t take a dive here? I mean, I don’t think the guy has any realistic MMA aspirations like Gall does.

I threw a flier on CM by sub but anyone who goes heavy on Jackson and loses Bc of some fuckery can’t complain imo

I would agree betting this fight heavy (either way) is probably a bad idea. I have a moderate bet on Jackson itd.

Yes, both might be the "worst guy at their gym". True. (Def true for Punk, not positive for Jackson but for sure could be true). But again, Jackson has at least KO'd guys (scrubs yes, but real, breathing human men that were trying to do the same to him at least) in a combat sports setting. Punk has been in a combat sports setting exactly one time in his life, and was wrecked every second of that time.

As for Jackson taking a dive, who's setting it up? The UFC is gonna risk their $4b investment's legitimacy to get a few more ppv buys out of their 40 year old ex pro wrestler who's "career" in the UFC will be done soon anyway? Not a chance. That would be too dumb to fathom. Punk's camp or "people"? Why? He wanted to see how he could do actually competing. He already made a bunch of $ in predetermined "fights". The whole "Jackson might throw this fight" narrative makes no sense. Not because I know he's above it (I'd imagine he is, but I don't know that) but because there's nobody out there who would take the chance to set up something like that.
 
People seriously betting Bektic here even after he climbed over -200, then to -220, now -240??

I don't get it. I can see favoring him a little over Lamas, but this is nuts. So wish I'd have waited on Lamas. My odds suck, I have +160, +190, +200. Ugh.
I can't figure out which bet is the worst bet of the card. It's either Bektic or Tuivasa, both might win but there is no justification for betting them at their current lines.
 
I would agree betting this fight heavy (either way) is probably a bad idea. I have a moderate bet on Jackson itd.

Yes, both might be the "worst guy at their gym". True. (Def true for Punk, not positive for Jackson but for sure could be true). But again, Jackson has at least KO'd guys (scrubs yes, but real, breathing human men that were trying to do the same to him at least) in a combat sports setting. Punk has been in a combat sports setting exactly one time in his life, and was wrecked every second of that time.

As for Jackson taking a dive, who's setting it up? The UFC is gonna risk their $4b investment's legitimacy to get a few more ppv buys out of their 40 year old ex pro wrestler who's "career" in the UFC will be done soon anyway? Not a chance. That would be too dumb to fathom. Punk's camp or "people"? Why? He wanted to see how he could do actually competing. He already made a bunch of $ in predetermined "fights". The whole "Jackson might throw this fight" narrative makes no sense. Not because I know he's above it (I'd imagine he is, but I don't know that) but because there's nobody out there who would take the chance to set up something like that.
I don’t wanna speculate who would pay Jackson to take a dive but fuckery has happened in practically every single sport. To think the UFC/MMA is immune to stuff like that is garbage. Remember the Kuntz/Bang fight that was in the process of being fixed? What’s to say something like that hasn’t happened in the past. Again, not saying the fix is in, but to assume it’s impossible is naive imo.
 
I can't figure out which bet is the worst bet of the card. It's either Bektic or Tuivasa, both might win but there is no justification for betting them at their current lines.

Agree. If Bektic was -135, -145, something like that...okay. People were betting him at -220. That is just insanity.

Agree on Tuivasa too. If you want to bet him, just take rd 1 prop. After that his odds plummet, he has about 5 minutes of cardio imo. Even if the fight is somewhat slower paced. I'm on AA rd 2, AA rd 3, and AA ML.
 
I don’t wanna speculate who would pay Jackson to take a dive but fuckery has happened in practically every single sport. To think the UFC/MMA is immune to stuff like that is garbage. Remember the Kuntz/Bang fight that was in the process of being fixed? What’s to say something like that hasn’t happened in the past. Again, not saying the fix is in, but to assume it’s impossible is naive imo.

Maybe this is pure xenophobia on my part, but I don't think it was a coincidence at all that the fight you mentioned was the last time we saw an attempt at a fix and it took place geographically where it did.

Punk is too big a name and would garner WAY too much negative attention if caught up in something like that imo. Anything is possible, but you still have to look at who's paying Jackson to do it. Organized crime to profit by gambling on it? With the low limits on MMA that are allowed, that seems unlikely. And I mentioned why it's so implausible for the UFC or Punk's camp to do it.

It's not impossible, but then it's not impossible in any fight really. I don't think this fight has a much higher likelihood of it.
 
Whittaker itd
RDA
Holm
Tai itd
Jackson itd
Blaydes by Dec
Claudia/Bektic
Coulter itd
Rashad
Guida
Benavidez by dec
Ige
 
Maybe this is pure xenophobia on my part, but I don't think it was a coincidence at all that the fight you mentioned was the last time we saw an attempt at a fix and it took place geographically where it did.

Punk is too big a name and would garner WAY too much negative attention if caught up in something like that imo. Anything is possible, but you still have to look at who's paying Jackson to do it. Organized crime to profit by gambling on it? With the low limits on MMA that are allowed, that seems unlikely. And I mentioned why it's so implausible for the UFC or Punk's camp to do it.

It's not impossible, but then it's not impossible in any fight really. I don't think this fight has a much higher likelihood of it.
Wasn’t organized crime the reason for the Kuntz/Bang attempted rigging?
 
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