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I have been dabbling in this forum for some times occasionally, but never really felt like making an account to post, but i saw in many older topics that they referred to the kimura as a shoulder lock or that shoulder flexibility had anything to do with it.
Specially one which criticized judo rules for hypocresy because they allowed the kimura.
Ok, if you felt that kimura is a shoulder lock or that you can't pull against flexible types, lets drill this.
lay on the ground face up, and extend your arm in a keylock position, with any extension whatsoever, if you want your arm to make 45 degree, 60 degree or 30 degree it doesn't matters (this is the angle made by the arm and the forearm).
Now have the elbow point and your side of the body do a 90 degrees angle (this angle is measured at the armpit, is the angle made by your arm and the side of the body), now lift your elbow join without lifting your wrist or your shoulder from the ground. Done? you will see that you can lift the elbow joint quite a bit and you will start feeling some pressure on the shoulder as you try more and more.
Now do the same at 45 degrees you will now be able to lift it less before you feel pressure at the elbow and your shoulder should hurt less.
Now do an angle of less than 10 degrees, now you can barely lift the elbow, and you feel pressure immediatly, your shoulder is unaffected, that's where the udegarami should be applied.
Now why does this happens?
Simple, the elbow doesn't has any lateral mobility, it only bends in one way, so the target of the lock is to bend the elbow sideways, however because of the nature of the technique the shoulder can move alongside the force that its pressuring the elbow and relieve the pressure of the elbow. Imagine the arm of tori (attacker) as the axis of the bending force, when that axis is parallel to the rotation of the shoulder, then the shoulder can turn with the force and save the elbow from pressure, eventually the shoulder will also find its limits and since the shoulder is weaker it will crack before the elbow.
However then the axis of the bending force is perpendicular to the rotation of the shoulder, then the shoulder can't roll alongside the elbow and relieve pressure on it, which means that the elbow will snap instantly.
Here is one video of Fedor Emelianenko showing this
YouTube - Fedor Emelianenko - Optimal kimura ranges (MMA & UFC DVD)
In this video Fedor makes the force more perpendicular by also extending the arm, but its not necesary, you can do an ude garami with uke's arm flexed, however the armpit angle will need to be closer, at the video the armpit angle is almost 90 degrees and the force is perpendicular.
Sadly Judo rules has deviated too much from newaza and the likes of Kashiwazaki are less and less with time, but there are still those alive from the times where newaza was more relevant and they are still teaching, Judo newaza is also scientific and logical, you just need to find a good teacher.
Specially one which criticized judo rules for hypocresy because they allowed the kimura.
Ok, if you felt that kimura is a shoulder lock or that you can't pull against flexible types, lets drill this.
lay on the ground face up, and extend your arm in a keylock position, with any extension whatsoever, if you want your arm to make 45 degree, 60 degree or 30 degree it doesn't matters (this is the angle made by the arm and the forearm).
Now have the elbow point and your side of the body do a 90 degrees angle (this angle is measured at the armpit, is the angle made by your arm and the side of the body), now lift your elbow join without lifting your wrist or your shoulder from the ground. Done? you will see that you can lift the elbow joint quite a bit and you will start feeling some pressure on the shoulder as you try more and more.
Now do the same at 45 degrees you will now be able to lift it less before you feel pressure at the elbow and your shoulder should hurt less.
Now do an angle of less than 10 degrees, now you can barely lift the elbow, and you feel pressure immediatly, your shoulder is unaffected, that's where the udegarami should be applied.
Now why does this happens?
Simple, the elbow doesn't has any lateral mobility, it only bends in one way, so the target of the lock is to bend the elbow sideways, however because of the nature of the technique the shoulder can move alongside the force that its pressuring the elbow and relieve the pressure of the elbow. Imagine the arm of tori (attacker) as the axis of the bending force, when that axis is parallel to the rotation of the shoulder, then the shoulder can turn with the force and save the elbow from pressure, eventually the shoulder will also find its limits and since the shoulder is weaker it will crack before the elbow.
However then the axis of the bending force is perpendicular to the rotation of the shoulder, then the shoulder can't roll alongside the elbow and relieve pressure on it, which means that the elbow will snap instantly.
Here is one video of Fedor Emelianenko showing this
YouTube - Fedor Emelianenko - Optimal kimura ranges (MMA & UFC DVD)
In this video Fedor makes the force more perpendicular by also extending the arm, but its not necesary, you can do an ude garami with uke's arm flexed, however the armpit angle will need to be closer, at the video the armpit angle is almost 90 degrees and the force is perpendicular.
Sadly Judo rules has deviated too much from newaza and the likes of Kashiwazaki are less and less with time, but there are still those alive from the times where newaza was more relevant and they are still teaching, Judo newaza is also scientific and logical, you just need to find a good teacher.
