It is wrongly applied.
Uke's forearm, is used as a key (therefore a keylock) to apply pressure at the shoulder. It twists the shoulder joint past its natural range of motion. Eventually it'll break the elbow but only in the same way you can break a key off in a lock.
But is it not easier to break a key by putting it in a wrong lock so it won't turn? by twisting the arm perpendicular to the rotation of the shoulder you are giving a lot of room. By bending the arm in a position which is not perpendicular the shoulder doesn't has room to twist in a rotational way and the elbow will be targeted almost immediatly, and since there is no muscle that opposes the lateral twist of an elbow there is no resistance as opposed to the shoulder.
It can break arms, harm the elbow and destroy the shoulder.
So, you are right only to the extent that you mean that it is not solely a shoulder lock.
To the extent that you mean that it does not attack the shoulder, you are deflicted.
It doesn't attacks the shoulder when it properly applied, that's why KIMURA the man after the technique was named in BJJ snapped Helio's arm and not dislocated his shoulder. If you read the Canon of Judo of Mifune its also mentioned as an elbow lock. The video of Fedor also shows how its done to target the elbow. Watch the video.
Thanks for the insult though.
To call the dude retarded is uncalled for.
My guess is that the dude was simply never in an americana to know that if you don't tap your shoulder explodes.
Helio and Renzo had their ELBOWS busted from an Americana.
KIMURA, is the name given to the Ude Garami after MASAHIKO KIMURA busted Helio's ELBOW, not shoulder.
My guess is that you have never rolled with grappling experts who have trained all their lives and competed on the soviet bloc at the international level.
Try telling Fedor that his Kimura is wrong because it targets the elbow.
Attention graphic
YouTube - Sakuraba vs Renzo Gracie
Look at how Renzo elbow is completely twisted and his shoulder remains is unharmed.
The kimura is a shoulder lock that has the potenital to indeed hurt the elbow. I don't understand why you felt the need to type all that up it was completly pointless.
Because its not a shoulder lock, a properly applied Kimura, or ude garami as Masahiko Kimura applied to Helio and after the technique is called its an elbow lock.
My attention span isn't what it used to be- post a vid or something. I'm not reading that boring mass of words.
"Now why does this happens?"
Metalocalypse?
There is a video, do you feel compelled to troll so hard that you didn't even skimmed the post?
He bothered to post a treatise on something and is completely wrong about it, so spare me. But if you prefer....deflicted.
So the following people are retarded
Masahiko Kimura, Fedor Emelianenko, Kyuzo Mifune, Kasuzhi Sakuraba, Mitsuyo Maeda etc etc.
Again do you realize that Helio Gracie and Renzo Gracie had their ELBOWS busted and not their shoulders from the KIMURA, one of them precisely by Masahiko Kimura?
In my experience it's both. The shoulder is definitely where you feel the pain primarily, but I've had my elbow popped from an Americana.
Again if the attack comes from the proper angle you will feel an elbow pressure immediatly and your shoulder won't hurt, the only pressure you may feel from the shoulder of a properly applied kimura is muscle extension of the deltoids, but they won't be in danger.
I always felt them in the shoulder, but I did crack a guy's elbow with one before so I'm leaning towards both.
Depends on the angle, one of the defenses of the ude garami is bringing the arm up or down depending if reverse or normal ude garami in order to align the movement with the rotational motion of the shoulder and allow for more room.
Watch the video of Fedor at the correct angle there is no room for the elbow and there is little if any rotational motion, i mean you see at the Fedor video, you don't need to lift more than 10cm to break the elbow and that's way before the shoulder is in any danger.
i think that the "americana" is more shoulder than anything. you are isolating that joint and using the elbow for leverage to torque the shoulder to get the tap. the kimura from side control, is also more geared to pressure the shoulder as well, but when applied Sakuraba/Renzo style is much more an elbow attack than a shoulder attack.
Allowing the shoulder to rotate its in itself a bad idea and a wrong way to put the submission, the shoulder is flexible and to be able to crank it you need much more room, the elbow doesn't has any movement sideways. Again if you feel it in the shoulder its wrong and its not a "Kimura" if we refer to the "Kimura" as the lock that Kimura used against Helio.
I even did your test, and it affected my shoulder. It is a shoulder lock plain and simple, it can affect the elbow, but it targets the shoulder. The forearm is a lever used for the rotation of the shoulder. Flexibility doesn't have so much to do with not being able to get the lock as not being able to use the proper mechanics does.
You did it wrong, simple as that, there is simply not a correct biomechanical way to do so. If we go by anatomy you probably engaged the medial and lateral rotation of the shoulder joint, try again, this time don't lift the wrist or the shoulder. In fact if you can lift your elbow joint is because you are engaging one of the shoulder muscles as there is no muscle in the arm that can perform such movement.
If you mean it doesn't affect the shoulder then you're wrong but if you mean that it is primarily not a shoulder lock then I see where you're coming from.
It shouldn't affect the shoulder, at most if should be a moderate pain from muscle tension.
) but is that even a word?
