Tyson>Frazier

Here you go:
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RE: The Tyson/Frazier pic.

Ahem, that one wasn't my idea; a guy from the IBRO put me up to that one. :icon_twis
 
We cant all be photoshop pimps:D

I really think Frazier would beat him though.
 
Hester65 said:
Tyson was a fast starter when guys didn't press him. The top level guys Tyson fought that pressured him, beat him...

Joe Frazier brings pressure...
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Exactly. Tyson can't fight when he is moving backwards. He only had one speed, forward. What would he do against a smothering and whirlwind attack like Fraziers?

I think Tyson would crumble within 5 rounds.
 
StillinKansas said:
Agreed.

No way he threw that fight. There were a multitude of reasons that combined for that loss--but throwing it wasn't one of them.

Now, Liston on the other hand.....................
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Dont even try the Liston/Clay II c&%p.
 
However, to say that he couldn't have gone downhill because he regretted the choice of throwing a fight isn't really logical. Going downhill after that fight could be explained by his poor performace or him being really upset for making a horrible choice to throw a fight. Again though I don't believe like you that he did I just don't think him going downhill proves anything one way or another.
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Psychology is not that cut-and-dry. Foreman was young and at the top of the World when he fought Ali. He wasn't a Sonny Liston either with a shady background, he was the real deal in the ring and prided himself on everything he represented as a Champion.

There's a reason I listed the things I did in the order I did. First, Foreman lost the fight. Now say he threw it and knew it, why then tell everyone who would listen what a conspiracy it was that he lost? Why draw attention to POSSIBLE conspiracies? Everyone in the World could handle Foreman losing that fight but himself. And George wasn't a big complainer or whistle-blower. To me, the tirades he went on demonstrated harm to his confidence, not dissatisfaction from being bribed.

Then, as he fought on it's not that he actually diminished per se, but he attempted to kill nearly everyone he got in the ring with, abandoning what Boxing ability he head attempting to re-prove his greatness as a KO artist. First, he went life-or-Death with Lyle, Lyle being a tough puncher himself. Then he had a string of wins until he met Jimmy Young, another guy who wasn't going to be an easy mark. After losing that fight, commenced the retirement for 10 years, George realizing he wasn't the killer he was pre-Ali.

I don't think a man would go through all that, as well as turning to drug use, simply for accepting lay-down pay in a game as dirty as Boxing has been. George just never fit that profile.
 
I've never understood why so many people consider Tyson' victory over Spinks as the pinnacle victory in the history of the division.
 
HawkEyes Mihawk said:
I have watched both of these guys and noticed that they have the exact same style. But the difference is Tyson is faster, stronger, and has better defense. It's like comparing Rampage to Forrest, Rampage is better at everything. The ONLY thing Frazier has on Tyson is heart. So I think if we want to indicate how Tyson would do against the golden age HW's, we look at how Frazier did, but Tyson is like Frazier 2.0.

I seriously think Tyson would be the worse possible match up for ALI, in the history of HW's. I think he would beat Frazier via 2.0. But I think he would have a shit load of trouble with Foreman. That might be a fight he loses. And this is all of them in there primes.
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Judging someone's skill set against guys like Foreman, Foster, Quarry, and Ali is different than judging someone's skill set against guys like Michael Johnson and Trevor Berbick.
 
Sonny said:
I've never understood why so many people consider Tyson' victory over Spinks as the pinnacle victory in the history of the division.
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Yep.

Wanna talk bout someone who lost before the bell ever rang...
 
Whjy do ppl keep using the holyfield fight, etc against Tyson? He wasnt close in the 90's to what he was in the 80's. STFU about that shit. Want me to use the Holmes vs. Ali fight against Ali? When Tyson got with King, he had no head movement anymore, and basically not even close to the great boxing skill he had with Cus. He always went for that big KO, when he got with King. With Cus, he was a good all around boxer. With king, he was only offensive. When I make fantasy match ups, I am talking about PRIME. So dont talk that bullshit in here.

After seeing what Foreman did to Frazier, Tyson would overwhelm the shit out of him. Tyson is quicker than Foreman, WAY quicker. Bad matchup for Frazier. Like I said, the only dude who would give Tyson fits in that era, is Foreman and arguably ALI. I really cant come up with who would have won beetween Tyson and ALI. But with the Foreman fight, I think whoever has the most heart, will, and better chin in that fight would come out on top. This is just my opinion though, so don't get all pissed off
 
Foreman pushed frazier to the end of his range. Tysons range is Fraziers range. Completely different fight
 
HawkEyes Mihawk said:
So dont talk that bullshit in here... This is just my opinion though, so don't get all pissed off
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Who TF are you? You've been here 3 days and you are already talking like you own the place. I was polite to you in my other post:

"HawkEyes:

You might want to slow down there young man--12 threads started in your first 3 days!

Why don't you lurk and learn for a while--there are some long time Sherdoggers in the boxing forum from whom you could pick up a lot of knowledge...

IMO..."

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=753287&page=2

Now I'm just gonna say: STFU kid...:mad:
 
Whjy do ppl keep using the holyfield fight, etc against Tyson? He wasnt close in the 90's to what he was in the 80's. STFU about that shit. Want me to use the Holmes vs. Ali fight against Ali? When Tyson got with King, he had no head movement anymore, and basically not even close to the great boxing skill he had with Cus. He always went for that big KO, when he got with King. With Cus, he was a good all around boxer. With king, he was only offensive. When I make fantasy match ups, I am talking about PRIME. So dont talk that bullshit in here.
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Apologism won't change the fact that no one is to blame for Tyson's downfall but himself. Therefore, it can absolutely be used against him. And BTW, he didn't move his head against Douglas either. LONG before he fought Holyfield.
 
HawkEyes Mihawk said:
I really cant come up with who would have won beetween Tyson and ALI.
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I can: Ali. The Ali of the 60's for sure.

I'm not a big Ali fan AT ALL--but he had two things better than any other HW that I've seen: footwork and the ability to absorb a punch.

Others have had better jabs than Ali and practically all had more power but his footwork enabled him to stay out of range and the way he leaned his head back (to lengthen the punch and thus lessen the impact) enabled him to take any punch.

Hell the big hook from Frazier couldn't even keep him down and he wouldn't be stupid enough to stay in range of Tyson's ungodly uppercuts...
 
King Kabuki said:
Apologism won't change the fact that no one is to blame for Tyson's downfall but himself. Therefore, it can absolutely be used against him. And BTW, he didn't move his head against Douglas either. LONG before he fought Holyfield.
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Exactly, post cus was all downhill.

@Kansas, Ali nevr faced anyone who can combine speed and power as good as Tyson. Plus Tyson had great defense pre cus death.
 
Post-Cus, he was 20 years-old pre-Cus. Cus wasn't some magical force, Tyson was headed down the same path regardless. BTW, Rooney did 80% of the work with Tyson, not Cus, and Tyson fired Rooney.
 
HawkEyes Mihawk said:
Exactly, post cus was all downhill.

@Kansas, Ali nevr faced anyone who can combine speed and power as good as Tyson. Plus Tyson had great defense pre cus death.
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I'm the same age as Tyson. I remember his career clearly. Before the Douglas fight EVERYONE was scared to death of him--all fans as well as all fighters. His quickness and ferocity was intimidating as hell. His uppercut was a thing of beauty.

That said, Clay/Ali defeated TWO "Mike Tyson"s in his career: Liston and Foreman. If you didn't know, both of those men had every bit the intimidation factor that Tyson did (until 1990) --esp. Foreman after his destruction of the then-considered-unbeatable Joe Frazier.

If Buster Douglas could gameplan a strategy to defeat Tyson, Ali sure could have.

Cus was more of a mentor to Mike--Atlas and Rooney trained him, BTW...
 
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