Tyron Woodley: 'Don't leave it in the judges hands' is the stupidest comment ever!

[screaminleeman]

There's a reality that "don't leave it in the hands of the judges" is based on- judges tend fuck up sometimes. This past UFC Fight Night card in Boston proves that. And until such fuck ups are eradicated, Woodley sounds like an annoyed whiner. He's not dealing with the reality, he's just venting because he is annoyed. There is nothing wrong with the idea of going the extra mile to be sure.

While I am not disputing the "challenge" in uniformly accepted scoring in MMA with you whatsoever, I am still obligated to point out that you are amongst the worst at comprehension of the extreme basis of T.W.'s point.

Again I am NOT trying to bash you, and it is none of my business how old you are, or if you were even born when MMA was so extremely close to being banned (seemingly like yesterday) to some of us MMA fans long before Zuffa entered the MMA world.

With that said, without scoring, there flat out IS NO SUCH THING AS MMA! That "imaginary" thing that you dearly would like to believe in was OUTLAWED.

We elder fans watched it my friend. It was termed NHB (No holds barred) fighting.

OK, so I hopefully have put MMA into perspective for you.

- ILLEGAL without a time limit and decision based on SCORE after said time period!

Now hopefully you can comprehend the 100% inability for MMA to exist in the USA without Judges scoring fights.

ggiven that you are a resonably mature MMA fan, we can now throw this kindergarten just bleed for me the center of the universe or I'll hold my breath until my b.b's shoot through my nostrils. . . . temper tantrum act.

Judging is in MMA to stay, and if you cannot see clearly that it is you objecting to decisions that are THE ONLY WHINERS in this argument.

Boo Hoo Hoo, US Senator Foley stole our brutal NHB from us, boo hoo, Judges all suck.. boo hoo?

WTF?

Now, here is where I am actually DISAGREEING with you.

- Your point, MMA judging can be "F'd up sometimes" I agree with.

Your opinion on REQUIRING T.W. or any other MMA fighter for taking the Judging challenge into their own hands is flat out infantile.

So you give Zuffa, Dana & the UFC brass 100% pass on working with the AC's to actually "CORRECT/ FIX" the issue?

It is not really even a matter of opinion, you are just flat out WRONG whiner.


None of the fighters owe YOU or any other B.S. MMA entitlement fan JACK-POOP in modifying the current rules in place.

You have a better chance being mature and writing the UFC at minimum attempting to get the isue resolved rather than crying in some fighters jock strap!

 

[Break_the_will]

Sigh... Tyron with some sour grapes.

First and foremost, Tyron, you signed up for this. You don't like being in the public eye, and don't like being criticized for how you do your job? Tough shit, no one cares... Join the rest of the american labor force where people in the real world are worried about actually having a job, one they probably hate, and make FAR less than you do. Better yet how about the military that gets shit on daily for doing their job? A job that requires them to put their life on the line, not see their families for months at a time, and get paid peanuts compared to a top10 ranked fighter. YOU Tyron could never fathom the sacrifices THEY make, and yet they take all the criticism in stride. You get no sympathy from me.

Secondly, this idea that people would have to train and take amateur fights to earn the right to have this opinion is completely ridiculous. Your fellow fighters have expressed this sentiment countless times, because they understand what you can't seem to grasp... The judges are human, will make mistakes, are unable to see everything that is happening at all times due to the speed and the angles, and most importantly are forced to work within a scoring system that is extremely ill suited for MMA. They are set up to fail, and the fact that we see as few terrible decisions as we do is nothing short of a miracle.

Thirdly, the irony of a fighter who celebrates winning by fluke injury, and has a third of his fights go to boring decisions... talking about fans being delusional is something to behold. Reality is calling, it's time for you to check in Tyron. I think perhaps it is you who doesnt have the "mental capacity" to understand YOU are apart of the problem YOU are crying about.

Lastly, to the idiots supporting this kind of self aggrandizing self absorbed incoherent verbal diarrhea... grow the fuck up. We get it, you're cool... and everything UFC/Dana White is terrible. You're super intellectual because you can play the contrarian. Yet you completely ignore the fact that the UFC has no control over the judging, and Dana White who you love to demonize is probably the biggest and most vocal advocate for the fighters when they get screwed by the judges. The phrase "don't leave it in the hands of the judges" is just another way of saying "take fate into your own hands", "capre diem", "master of your own deistiny", etc. This isn't a new concept, so I honestly don't understand the outrage. Don't wait until its too late and the time for action has passed. If you relinquish control over your fate to someone else, you can not be upset when it doesn't work out in your favor... especially going into it knowing the people who ultimately decide your fate are known to be inconsistent.

i'll get off my soap box now.

 

[Godzilla3232]

"The judges are incompetent, so instead of pushing for the education or flat out dismissal of these judges let's just encourage the fighters to do their best to avoid relying on them to do their jobs."

That's every bit as stupid as it sounds. He's right about that phrase being complete bullshit.

 

[Break_the_will]

While I am not disputing the "challenge" in uniformly accepted scoring in MMA with you whatsoever, I am still obligated to point out that you are amongst the worst at comprehension of the extreme basis of T.W.'s point.

Again I am NOT trying to bash you, and it is none of my business how old you are, or if you were even born when MMA was so extremely close to being banned (seemingly like yesterday) to some of us MMA fans long before Zuffa entered the MMA world.

With that said, without scoring, there flat out IS NO SUCH THING AS MMA! That "imaginary" thing that you dearly would like to believe in was OUTLAWED.

We elder fans watched it my friend. It was termed NHB (No holds barred) fighting.

OK, so I hopefully have put MMA into perspective for you.

- ILLEGAL without a time limit and decision based on SCORE after said time period!

Now hopefully you can comprehend the 100% inability for MMA to exist in the USA without Judges scoring fights.

ggiven that you are a resonably mature MMA fan, we can now throw this kindergarten just bleed for me the center of the universe or I'll hold my breath until my b.b's shoot through my nostrils. . . . temper tantrum act.

Judging is in MMA to stay, and if you cannot see clearly that it is you objecting to decisions that are THE ONLY WHINERS in this argument.

Boo Hoo Hoo, US Senator Foley stole our brutal NHB from us, boo hoo, Judges all suck.. boo hoo?

WTF?

Now, here is where I am actually DISAGREEING with you.

- Your point, MMA judging can be "F'd up sometimes" I agree with.

Your opinion on REQUIRING T.W. or any other MMA fighter for taking the Judging challenge into their own hands is flat out infantile.

So you give Zuffa, Dana & the UFC brass 100% pass on working with the AC's to actually "CORRECT/ FIX" the issue?

It is not really even a matter of opinion, you are just flat out WRONG whiner.


None of the fighters owe YOU or any other B.S. MMA entitlement fan JACK-POOP in modifying the current rules in place.

You have a better chance being mature and writing the UFC at minimum attempting to get the isue resolved rather than crying in some fighters jock strap!

The irony of your post is just too rich to pass up. You completely missed the point of his post. It wasn't to say that Judging and the Unified rules that allow MMA to exist need to be thrown out (honestly not sure where the fuck that came from?), but that the judges currently circulating the MMA Judging scene are making poor choices. More over, until those types of judging mistakes are "eradicated", the phrase this entire thread revolves around is perfectly applicable. Your entire condescending tirade about the history of fighting and how you were here from the beginning is utterly inane. Your self proclaimed expert appointment due to your viewing tenure is laughable.

The rest of your post is virtually incomprehensible. No one is saying the fighters should change the rules? No one is saying they are responsible for the current state of MMA? Your assertion that only "just bleed self centered" fans disagree with his point is again baseless. I'd be willing to bet the majority of MMA fans would agree that the best possible scenario is two well matched fighters doing everything they can to finish the fight, and that the end result matters far less than the intent to reach that result. As for the fighters "owing" "jack-loop"(WTF?) They are paid entertainers. They also happen to be participating in a COMBAT SPORT. This means, that they are required to A: FIGHT, and B: Do so in an entertaining fashion. Any fighter has the right to decline the B portion, and then fans/promoters have the right to not pay them to fight anymore. It's really that simple.

 

[Break_the_will]

"The judges are incompetent, so instead of pushing for the education or flat out dismissal of these judges let's just encourage the fighters to do their best to avoid relying on them to do their jobs."

That's every bit as stupid as it sounds. He's right about that phrase being complete bullshit.

First, who is supposed to push for education or termination of the existing judges?

Second, once we determine who... HOW are they going to do this? Would it perhaps be by sending educated and experienced refs, fighters, coaches, and promoters to the NSAC meetings to raise said issues? Maybe you should read up on how many times that's been attempted.

Lastly, In your paraphrased synopsis you failed to mention that they are also encouraging the fighters to do what they are paid for. FIGHT. Inherently if both competitors are FIGHTING, the end goal is a stoppage victory. The phrase would only act as a reminder of what the ultimate goal should be. It may be spurred by the fact that the promotion and fighters have zero recourse for the judging/scoring failures, but it in no way is in validated by such.

 

[Toxxus]

I'll agree with the general point he's trying to make which is , "Judges should be competent at their jobs and held accountable when they prove otherwise.".

Most of the other stuff is just fighter whining, however.

1- Time away from family and friends: Lots of people travel for their work and have the same inconveniences. I don't travel, but I work enough hours that I don't even get to see my kid go to bed some nights. I get a lunch break at least once a week...

2- Physical Demands: Lots of people have physically taxing and damaging jobs. Construction workers, plumbers, hell even desk jockeys like myself. I get plenty of wear and tear from sitting at a computer 12-15 hours a day, but instead of looking like a f'ing superhero I get to diet permanently just to avoid being a fat ass.

3- Taxes, being underpaid, etc.: Pretty much everyone who works has the same problems Mr. Woodley.

4- Do an 8-week fight camp and an amateur fight: Are you f'ing kidding? I'd love to get an 8 week paid workout camp. My ancient desk jockey body would love something like that. I'll get my ass kicked in the fight, but if I'm getting 8 weeks off to do it then let's go. Hell, back in the 90s I used to get my ass kicked every 3rd or 4th weekend for little plastic trophies and $0.

 

[Godzilla3232]

First, who is supposed to push for education or termination of the existing judges?

Second, once we determine who... HOW are they going to do this? Would it perhaps be by sending educated and experienced refs, fighters, coaches, and promoters to the NSAC meetings to raise said issues? Maybe you should read up on how many times that's been attempted.

Lastly, In your paraphrased synopsis you failed to mention that they are also encouraging the fighters to do what they are paid for. FIGHT. Inherently if both competitors are FIGHTING, the end goal is a stoppage victory. The phrase would only act as a reminder of what the ultimate goal should be. It may be spurred by the fact that the promotion and fighters have zero recourse for the judging/scoring failures, but it in no way is in validated by such.

The UFC is supposed to be lobbying HARD for their education or subsequent firing. It's their promotion and legitimacy that these judges are defecating on.

Second, I'm not saying it's easy or it's bound to happen anytime soon, but that tag line is just a lazy and defeatist approach to addressing the problem. It's detrimental.

Lastly, that goal is irrelevant and is not an advantage or benefit to poor judging. If everyone feels that the fighters are too frequently trying to game the system the rules and scoring need to change. You don't keep shit judges around and tell everyone "durr, don't go the distance or these morons will fuck you over." It makes the sport in general look cheesy and incompetently facilitated.

 

[Break_the_will]

I'll agree with the general point he's trying to make which is , "Judges should be competent at their jobs and held accountable when they prove otherwise.".

Most of the other stuff is just fighter whining, however.

1- Time away from family and friends: Lots of people travel for their work and have the same inconveniences. I don't travel, but I work enough hours that I don't even get to see my kid go to bed some nights. I get a lunch break at least once a week...

2- Physical Demands: Lots of people have physically taxing and damaging jobs. Construction workers, plumbers, hell even desk jockeys like myself. I get plenty of wear and tear from sitting at a computer 12-15 hours a day, but instead of looking like a f'ing superhero I get to diet permanently just to avoid being a fat ass.

3- Taxes, being underpaid, etc.: Pretty much everyone who works has the same problems Mr. Woodley.

4- Do an 8-week fight camp and an amateur fight: Are you f'ing kidding? I'd love to get an 8 week paid workout camp. My ancient desk jockey body would love something like that. I'll get my ass kicked in the fight, but if I'm getting 8 weeks off to do it then let's go. Hell, back in the 90s I used to get my ass kicked every 3rd or 4th weekend for little plastic trophies and $0.

Completely agree. I don't think anyone is saying or is trying to give the judges a pass for being terrible... rather simply acknowledging that the judges make bad calls occasionally... and that if you'd like to avoid that possibility you should do your best to end the fight.

As for the rest, spot on sir, spot on.

 

[brnforce]

"The judges are incompetent, so instead of pushing for the education or flat out dismissal of these judges let's just encourage the fighters to do their best to avoid relying on them to do their jobs."

That's every bit as stupid as it sounds. He's right about that phrase being complete bullshit.

Except that the UFC literally has zero power to get "education or flat out dismissal" for the judges. If the UFC tries to stand against the Athletic Commissions they will just be banned from that state for a period of time. In certain states that's not that big of a deal, but in others it means more to the UFC to just accept the situation.

 

[Break_the_will]

The UFC is supposed to be lobbying HARD for their education or subsequent firing. It's their promotion and legitimacy that these judges are defecating on.

Second, I'm not saying it's easy or it's bound to happen anytime soon, but that tag line is just a lazy and defeatist approach to addressing the problem. It's detrimental.

Lastly, that goal is irrelevant and is not and advantage or benefit to poor judging. If everyone feels that the fighters are too frequently trying to game the system the rules and scoring need to change. You don't keep shit judges around and tell everyone "durr, don't go the distance or these morons will fuck you over." It makes the sport in general look cheesy and incompetently facilitated.

Have you ever dealt with a government organization? If not, I think you're really under appreciating just how difficult that task is. Dana has talked about it ad nauseam, for fucks sake there are still states that don't allow MMA period. The UFC fought the battle to get this sport sanctioned at all, which may feel like ancient history... but in reality just happened less than two decades ago. In that time period the UFC as well as many other prominent figures in the MMA community have tried to petition for changes to be made (For reference you should look up what Matt Hume and Big John tried), and each time the AC's have shut them down because they felt the sport was still too new, and too recently viewed as barbaric to change anything dramatically. The AC's are only going to make changes when the stigma of MMA being a bloodsport is forgotten by the public, and unfortunately we aren't there yet.

So, in the intirum of having an AC willing to address the short-comings of the existing system... the promoters (not just Zuffa) have made it a point to call out the judges for shitty decisions, and relentlessly beat home the idea that fighters and fans can't count on the judges to be worth their salt (hence the phrase we're discussing here). Fighters should know by now everything i mentioned above, and by knowing this proceed to fight how ever they want with the understanding that the judging situation is what it is, so make the best of it for now. If a fighter wants to roll the dice with the judges, or is unable to stop the fight and is force to roll the dice, both fighters are dealing with the same lack of judging and as frustrating as it may be... it's at least equally frustrating to both fighters, the promoters, and the fans equally.

 

[Scuba]

gotta agree with what woodley is saying but I'm pretty sure we'll have posters in here picking apart little bits of the quote

 

[Godzilla3232]

Have you ever dealt with a government organization? If not, I think you're really under appreciating just how difficult that task is. Dana has talked about it ad nauseam, for fucks sake there are still states that don't allow MMA period. The UFC fought the battle to get this sport sanctioned at all, which may feel like ancient history... but in reality just happened less than two decades ago. In that time period the UFC as well as many other prominent figures in the MMA community have tried to petition for changes to be made (For reference you should look up what Matt Hume and Big John tried), and each time the AC's have shut them down because they felt the sport was still too new, and too recently viewed as barbaric to change anything dramatically. The AC's are only going to make changes when the stigma of MMA being a bloodsport is forgotten by the public, and unfortunately we aren't there yet.

So, in the intirum of having an AC willing to address the short-comings of the existing system... the promoters (not just Zuffa) have made it a point to call out the judges for shitty decisions, and relentlessly beat home the idea that fighters and fans can't count on the judges to be worth their salt (hence the phrase we're discussing here). Fighters should know by now everything i mentioned above, and by knowing this proceed to fight how ever they want with the understanding that the judging situation is what it is, so make the best of it for now. If a fighter wants to roll the dice with the judges, or is unable to stop the fight and is force to roll the dice, both fighters are dealing with the same lack of judging and as frustrating as it may be... it's at least equally frustrating to both fighters, the promoters, and the fans equally.

Regardless of the reality the official tag line that's branded in response to these issues shouldn't be "just don't leave it in the hands of the judges." That's dismissive of the problem and makes the UFC sound like they don't want to deal with it.

Everyone understands the judging is a problem; it does hurt the promotion, the fans and most of all the fighters. I think we'd like to hear more reassurance that something is at least being attempted, but that defeatist rhetoric is all we ever hear in response to each and every event staining, career fucking bad decision that's handed down.

 

[eiyuu]

So it was all good that Benson Henderson left it in the hands of the judges against Cowboy?

Same for Sean Spencer against Pendred?

 

[Break_the_will]

Regardless of the reality the official tag line that's branded in response to these issues shouldn't be "just don't leave it in the hands of the judges." That's dismissive of the problem and makes the UFC sound like they don't want to deal with it.

Everyone understands the judging is a problem; it does hurt the promotion, the fans and most of all the fighters. I think we'd like to hear more reassurance that something is at least being attempted, but that defeatist rhetoric is all we ever hear in response to each and every event staining, career fucking bad decision that's handed down.

While i don't disagree entirely with you, i think you're been too short sighted. The UFC has publically, privately, and officially chastised the AC's for letting the judging debacle continue... but the issue is they have no control or power to make changes happen. Every single time anyone, Zuffa included, has tried to address the issues with the AC's they are completely shut down.

So the question really becomes, what to do about it for now until we can get in and make the changes we want? Do we continue to trash the AC's and Ref's at every turn... thus making the future discussions to remedy to situation all the more improbable, or worse... souring the relationship with the AC's completely and not host events in that state anymore?

Most mature adults would realize that there is nothing to be gained by relentlessly bashing the refs and AC's to the point where all cooperation is gone. So, with that being said, they've elected to put emphasis on the only aspect they control. They've done everything under the sun monetary bonus wise to give incentive for fighters to finish fights, and they coined the phrase that has so many of you up in arms "don't leave it to the judges".

Aside from these two approaches, i honestly dont know what else you think can be done if the AC's are unwilling to even start the discussion.

 

[Poseidon]

Thought he was going to say 'That's what judges are meant to be for' that it's not fighters fault that they are so inept. Anyhow, he's spot on.

 

[Alpinestar]

Woodley is not butt hurt that fans are criticizing him, rather I think he just hates cliche driven saying having said over and over again. He does have a point in saying no fighter wants a decision win. But when you fight the best of the competition, it's hard to get a finish. As fans, we don't know what it's like fighting someone who's good enough seriously hurt you. It's like baseball fans keep wanting a homerun when they have no idea how hard hitting a homerun is.

What Dana White says, he does it from a business man's point of view. He thinks friends should be fighting each other too. Well, I for one couldn't punch one of my friends in the face. It's easier said than done.

 

[TUF17Monster]

Than quit prof. fighting.....

 

[trident]

Fair enough. I never say that line but I get what he is saying. Finishing guys at the top level is certainly a difficult task. On the other hand, we clearly see on every fight card people coasting when they are up two rounds to none. We also see the fighter losing those two rounds coming out flat as shit in round three not even trying to win, just trying to survive. I get the self preservation part of it, but that only goes so far. Woodley himself fought like that against Rory. I recall him saying don't leave it to the judges after one of his recent fights as well, have to go look it up to remember which fight that was.

Normally I agree with how honest he is about his career and fighting in general. But at the end of the day fans and fighters alike are allowed to have any kind of opinion they want about a fighter and can speak out on it whenever they please. Also, I had eye surgery so I can't even fight MMA so its kinda lame to call out people that don't fight without knowing anything about their lives and circumstances. He wants us to understand about other shit he has going on but then turns around and makes a comment like that. Doesn't make much sense to me. The guy is living his dream, working for him means following his passion every single day and getting paid for it. MMA is my biggest passion in life but circumstances I had no control over prevent me from being able to get in the cage. Tyron should be more grateful that he has the ability to live out his dream. Oh well, just my two cents.

Some good points but I think Rory just had him beat and confused. He looked clearly frustrated to me.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I thought the saying was in response to fighters who want to bitch about the judging decisions. If it is then I don't see the big problem.

 

[Toxxus]

You'll never stop the self-preservation stuff from happening. If you're tired enough or getting your ass kicked bad enough it becomes a moral victory to only lose by decision.

Nobody wants to get finished.

I'll reserve my disdain for those who don't even try to get a finish in the 3rd.