Turtle guard / Octopus guard?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by DVD review guy, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. DVD review guy

    DVD review guy Green Belt

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    If you turtle up, what's your go to? Next move?

    Eduardo Telles (Turtle & Octopus Guard) Has anyone used his style of guard?

    I only have one move (which works ok) Marcelo's "trap and roll." You also catch/trap a leg during the roll. We end up in a reverse half guard, me on botom.
     
  2. Jaxx

    Jaxx Green Belt

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    Watch youtube.

    Check out Wrestling and Judo for reversals and stand ups.
     
  3. DVD review guy

    DVD review guy Green Belt

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    Me? watch youtube:icon_idea

    I'm looking for what forum members have used with success.
     
  4. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    I like doing something akin to a Seoi Otoshi from the turtle, as well as the single and double leg that everyone and their grandmother does.
     
  5. Jaxx

    Jaxx Green Belt

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    DVD Review guy? No 'free on you tube' review guy?

    Seriously watch wrestling and Judo..

    Switches, stands ups, rolls, for subs look at Saku's kimuras/top wrists locks or rolling knee bars. The turtle is seriously underated in BJJ/MMA.
     
  6. DVD review guy

    DVD review guy Green Belt

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    Jaxx - good call. I have always made it a point never to turtle. As I get older, it's a more realistic option for me. I spend just a few seconds when turtling, I hit the roll once I obtain all fours.

    I don't like looking for singles or doubles. My old instructor would darce the life out of you when turtle. For that matter, the entire team. We / they would bait a turn in side control escape just for the darce options.

    I will continue to research my options. Again, still interested in every ones counters

    "Jaxx," is that a Son's of Ananrchy reference?
     
  7. Jaxx

    Jaxx Green Belt

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    Ahh turtling, never understood why you BJJ guys hated it. If your instrustor, or any one else, is darcing you then you are allowing them to feed their ARM under your armpit. STOP THEM! Acutally if they do that then you can roll them as a counter.

    When turtled, understand that you need to stand up, reverse, roll or sub the guy straight away. Do not just sit there unless rules allow it. The guard is a passive position, the turtle not!

    After viewing f12 for years, i decided to sign up. 'BASEMENT JAXX' was the first CD i managed to view so i stuck with the Jaxx name.
     
  8. Grapplingwizard**

    Grapplingwizard** Banned Banned

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    I hit a stand up or if their leg is within reach i will hook whatever leg or both legs if I can and take them down (a reversal basically). If they are high up on me I will shoulder roll and end up on top of them. (Granby in Wrestling)
     
  9. ThinkGreen

    ThinkGreen Der √úbermensch

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    I usually try for the sit out, or try to regain half guard.
     
  10. Terror Zone

    Terror Zone Banned Banned

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    I was going to post a much longer reply, but basically you just need to watch this.

    [​IMG]



    He has two other main sweeps and then there's the roll where you trap the arm. When used in combination with one another along with kimuras and kneebars, it makes for a very effective and complete guard. The BJJ bias against turtle guard is fucking retarded.
     
  11. 256

    256 Purple Belt

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    my go to move from turtle is catching elbows with overhooks and sitting out to quick arm bars. catch people all the time with that stuff.
     
  12. snoop dogg***

    snoop dogg*** Baby Heath goon$quad

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    my coach carlos is pretty damn good at moves from turtle. not trying to brag or anything. but since he moved to the US my subs from turtle have increased 10x
    [​IMG]
     
  13. nomoremondays

    nomoremondays Green Belt

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    From a judo perspective:
    If he is loose just as I am turtling, I will continue in a forward roll kind of move over the same side he is approaching from and get to my back again. Sometimes he will smash this as I am trying it so I will trap the nearest leg (half guard?) and work from there.
    If he is tight on me and feeds the arm underneath the arm pit then will trap it and try to turn into ura gatame. Else even the momentum of it is enough to scramble to a top side type position.
    If he is tight and approaching from behind while feeding the arm to my collar for the choke I will snag the arm and keep pulling on it. I suppose its looks like a seoi type movement but we think about it as sort of like climbing a rope- continuous pulling pressure.
    If he is approaching from the front or side then I will look for the leg and try to send him backwards. If this fails, the movements generates enough space to again get to my back. Have to be aware of him locking up the arm or the choke when doing this.
    When he has really climbed onto my back I will roll and sit and let him work the choke. I am not unbeatable or anything but I am quite good at handfighting against it for a while. And in judo, where face chokes are not allowed I can do this for a while. If he tries to bring me back to my front I will go back to trying the above stuff.
     
  14. ABC

    ABC Silver Belt

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    You have to be patient, you can trap an arm, and drive sideways into them and immediately go for a shoulder lock, if the person is high up you can trap the leg, drive into them and attack the knee. If they get too far behind you, you can lock your legs around theirs and roll into a leg lock.
    I've had a lot of success working from turtle guard.
     
  15. ABC

    ABC Silver Belt

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    There are 2 guys who post occasionally on this forum:
    Kris Iatskevich and Boyd Ritchie. These guys are really knowledgeable at working out of turtle guard, except they call it 1/4 position. You can probably catch them in the catch wrestling thread.
     
  16. KJGould

    KJGould Silver Belt

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    Quarter Position I thought was the English name used in Judo, as I've heard Paulson call it this as well and assumed it was from his Judo background. Referee or Defensive Position are other names for it.
     
  17. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    My entire turtle game revolves around getting to half, preferably deep half. It's always worked well for me, if I can turtle rather than get my guard passed of course I'll do it, my re-guard rate against people my own level is probably 80%. It's actually pretty hard to attack the turtle, most guys aren't patient enough and will end up forcing something which will allow you to re-guard easily.
     
  18. ABC

    ABC Silver Belt

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    It could be because those guys have a Sambo background also, but that's what I've heard them call the position that is now being referred to as turtle guard.
     
  19. segfault

    segfault Orange Belt

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    I tried all the Telles stuff when I was a a new bluebelt, it all went very badly for me. I've seen many others try it over the years. I do believe it works, but I don't think it should be attempted by anyone less than a purple belt because it requires a great deal of sensitivity.

    For me, I avoid turtle but if I'm in a mess and early, I use Marcelo's hip roll (also known as turtle roll). I don't know a youtube for it, but here's an mginaction link:

    http://www.mginaction.com/VideoDetails.aspx?VideoId=12118

    If I really messed up and end up in turtle with the opponent having good control of me, I use the turtle hook like Robson shows here. I don't do anything fancy with the turtle hook, just to create space and sit back to guard.

    The sitting back to guard is shown on the DVD but not in the youtube clip. To sit back to guard, block with the turtle hook (nearside shin on opponents hip), then post on farside arm and shoot my farside leg back across the body. It would be good if someone had a clip of it, my description is not very good.

     
  20. Gia

    Gia White Belt

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    I've been trying to work on my open guard game and as a result I've been getting passed alot. My first reaction is to turtle up rather than letting someone get side control. Some of the higher belts have been telling me that its a bad habit, but it still seems like a better option than ending in the bottom of side control.

    I got the Telles dvd and I've been managing to hit the sweeps he shows about 50% of the time. As a result, I'm feeling more comfortable going to turtle. Am I missing something though? I'm still a white belt and I don't really see many of the higher belts using turtle that often.
     

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