Turkish government turning children into Salafist Jihadi's

[VivaRevolution]

And we already went over the part where neither you nor I speak Turkish, so we're trusting an outfit you already admit is propaganda that it's truthfully translated and put into proper context.

Explain that.

And we went over the part where I point out the other sources reported the same thing, and then you came back to the ridiculous assertion that the Hill, or Salon wouldn't love to destroy Brietbart's credibility with their readers, by showing them to be an RT mouthpiece.

Yeah, your conspiracy theory sounds legit.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

And we went over the part where I point out the other sources reported the same thing, and then you came back to the ridiculous assertion that the Hill, or Salon wouldn't love to destroy Brietbart's credibility with their readers, by showing them to be an RT mouthpiece.

Yeah, your conspiracy theory sounds legit.

What credibility is their left to destroy? Only people on the right read Breitbart anyway, and they would deflect criticism from liberal publications like Salon as nothing more than lies.

Let's imagine I posted an article from Voice of America saying Russia's government just mandated that a new class was to be included in every grade in Russian elementary school that teaches children to hate gays and touts the virtues of bullies that beat them up. This mandate is in Russian, which you don't speak. In addition to the completely unbiased VoA, it was also picked up by a journalistic heavyweight like The National Enquirer.

So, would you just accept that the mandate says what VoA and TNE says it does, or would you rightly say yeah...maybe that's true but there's no fucking way I'm trusting anything VoA or TNE say, especially not about one of their main geopolitical rivals?

 

[VivaRevolution]

What credibility is their left to destroy? Only people on the right read Breitbart anyway, and they would deflect criticism from liberal publications like Salon as nothing more than lies.

Let's imagine I posted an article from Voice of America saying Russia's government just mandated that a new class was to be included in every grade in Russian elementary school that teaches children to hate gays and touts the virtues of bullies that beat them up. This mandate is in Russian, which you don't speak. In addition to the completely unbiased VoA, it was also picked up by a journalistic heavyweight like The National Enquirer.

So, would you just accept that the mandate says what VoA and TNE says it does, or would you rightly say yeah...maybe that's true but there's no fucking way I'm trusting anything VoA or TNE say, especially not about one of their main geopolitical rivals?

Remember Rex, we aren't just talking about a report here. We are talking about something you can hold in your hand.


Ok fine, not Salon or the Hill. How about Fox News, or Business Insider with payback for Brietbart's pro-Trump coverage?

Does that one work for you?

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Remember Rex, we aren't just talking about a report here. We are talking about something you can hold in your hand.


Ok fine, not Salon or the Hill. How about Fox News, or Business Insider with payback for Brietbart's pro-Trump coverage?

Does that one work for you?

What works for me is a credible journalistic source not receiving funding from Russia, Turkey, the United States, or any other country with a vested interest in making Turkey look bad or good. That's a pretty reasonable request.

I'll even accept one of your leftie publications like Salon. While their domestic slant is clear, I know they won't defend Turkey if they don't deserve it.

Until you can produce a quality source, or a Turkish Sherdogger I trust like yekmurat enters this thread with his own translation, I'll continue to have justifiable doubts about this story.

 

[Ruprecht]

What works for me is a credible journalistic source not receiving funding from Russia, Turkey, the United States, or any other country with a vested interest in making Turkey look bad or good. That's a pretty reasonable request.

I'll even accept one of your leftie publications like Salon. While their domestic slant is clear, I know they won't defend Turkey if they don't deserve it.

Until you can produce a quality source, or a Turkish Sherdogger I trust like yekmurat enters this thread with his own translation, I'll continue to have justifiable doubts about this story.

Well, the original article was by Evrensel, which is a Turkish daily of a left-wing bent. Which was then reported on by Cumhuriyet, another Turkish paper, although one that's very anti-Erdogan.
Diyanet is definitely a Turkish Government department.
Basically Evrensel are saying that Diyanet/Erdogan's abuse of religion for nationalistic propaganda parallels ISIS/Jihadist use and interpretation.
Personally, I agree. It'd be like the US government putting out Religious GI Joe comics to Sunday Schools, about how awesome it is to join the military and die for Jesus and the US of A!

Of course I wouldn't trust RT or Breitbarts reporting or spin on it either...

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Well, the original article was by Evrensel, which is a Turkish daily of a left-wing bent. Which was then reported on by Cumhuriyet, another Turkish paper, although one that's very anti-Erdogan.
Diyanet is definitely a Turkish Government department.
Basically Evrensel are saying that Diyanet/Erdogan's abuse of religion for nationalistic propaganda parallels ISIS/Jihadist use and interpretation.
Personally, I agree. It'd be like the US government putting out Religious GI Joe comics to Sunday Schools, about how awesome it is to join the military and die for Jesus and the US of A!

Of course I wouldn't trust RT or Breitbarts reporting or spin on it either...

So basically that it is death for Islam via service through the legitimate forces of the Turkish government, then. That is a bit gross, though nowhere near as explosive as any sort of implication--which I think was clearly what RT was going for--that they are advocating people die for Islam via terrorism.

Of course, it'd be disappointing if a country that once prided itself on its secularism in a decidedly un-secular region, was equating service for the state as service for Islam.

This is the type of nuance you don't get when you read propaganda hatchet jobs.

 

[yekmurat]

That's cool, but once again, can we have a translation and an explanation of the context from a source that is not RT or a rag that likely just re-stated what they read in RT? They sound reputable but I can't read what they wrote because I don't speak Turkish. The Google Translate translation is a garbled mess. For an accusation this serious we're going to need a careful translation.

How about @yekmurat? He speaks Turkish. (Sorry to call you out, I know you don't post in the War Room)

My pleasure...ın Islam if you die ın a war to protect the religion and country thats the biggest and most important thing after being a prophet...and Quran says if anyone becomes Şehit(the person who dies for Islam) he is not dead he is alive and in that article goverment says to the kids to be Şehit...Its like to protect the country and the Islam...

 

[VivaRevolution]

What works for me is a credible journalistic source not receiving funding from Russia, Turkey, the United States, or any other country with a vested interest in making Turkey look bad or good. That's a pretty reasonable request.

I'll even accept one of your leftie publications like Salon. While their domestic slant is clear, I know they won't defend Turkey if they don't deserve it.

Until you can produce a quality source, or a Turkish Sherdogger I trust like yekmurat enters this thread with his own translation, I'll continue to have justifiable doubts about this story.

Rex, I'll just let it go, and I know there are plenty of Russian shills here, but ffs's, the truth is the truth no matter where it comes from.

If you would have said, "I don't trust the info because I know the type face the Turkish government uses, and that isn't the right type face", that is legit, but questioning info solely due to the source is absolute insanity. As a contributing factor....sure. As the sole factor........

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

My pleasure...ın Islam if you die ın a war to protect the religion and country thats the biggest and most important thing after being a prophet...and Quran says if anyone becomes Şehit(the person who dies for Islam) he is not dead he is alive and in that article goverment says to the kids to be Şehit...Its like to protect the country and the Islam...

Thanks man!

So it's pretty much saying dying for the Turkish government, in the army, is equivalent to dying for Islam?

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Rex, I'll just let it go, and I know there are plenty of Russian shills here, but ffs's, the truth is the truth no matter where it comes from.

If you would have said, "I don't trust the info because I know the type face the Turkish government uses, and that isn't the right type face", that is legit, but questioning info solely due to the source is absolute insanity.

I don't know why you keep saying this as if I've ever said anything counter to it. The truth may be the truth, but how do you confirm it's the truth? If a known liar comes up to you and tells you something, then you tell it to me without confirming it with people that are known to be honest, and I tell you I don't trust it, are you going to say, "Man, you're nuts! The truth is the truth!" I hope not. Who is feeding you information matters--a lot. Once again, this would have been a pretty simple matter if there was nothing that needed to be translated, but that's not the case.

From yekmurat's input, it looks like the cartoon is nothing like what your, frankly ridiculous, title makes it out to be. No mention of jihad or Salafism. It is simply breaking down the partition between mosque and state, which sucks, but saying dying for the Turkish government is dying for Islam is NOT saying you should go out and commit jihad/terrorism acts against non-Muslims.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I don't know why you keep saying this as if I've ever said anything counter to it. The truth may be the truth, but how do you confirm it's the truth? If a known liar comes up to you and tells you something, then you tell it to me without confirming it with people that are known to be honest, and I tell you I don't trust it, are you going to say, "Man, you're nuts! The truth is the truth!" I hope not. Who is feeding you information matters--a lot. Once again, this would have been a pretty simple matter if there was nothing that needed to be translated, but that's not the case.

From yekmurat's input, it looks like the cartoon is nothing like what your, frankly ridiculous, title makes it out to be. No mention of jihad or Salafism. It is simply breaking down the partition between mosque and state, which sucks, but saying dying for the Turkish government is dying for Islam is NOT saying you should go out and commit jihad/terrorism acts against non-Muslims.

Ahhhh, I was going to let it go, all the way up to your last line here. We were about to just agree to disagree.

Rex, you are in fairy tale land right now.

Do you think the Turkish government is dumb enough to create a cartoon giving ISIS's websight, telling kids join up here? You are using plausible deniability in a disgusting way right now.

GTFO!! That is grasping at straws even more then your assertion that Brietbart and the Mirror have no need for legitimacy.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Ahhhh, I was going to let it go, all the way up to your last line here. We were about to just agree to disagree.

Rex, you are in fairy tale land right now.

Do you think the Turkish government is dumb enough to create a cartoon giving ISIS's websight, telling kids join up here? You are using plausible deniability in a disgusting way right now.

GTFO!! That is grasping at straws even more then your assertion that Brietbart and the Mirror have no need for legitimacy.

No, we are going to agree to disagree. The fact you admit RT is propaganda then follow it up with "but the truth is the truth" shows there's a gap in your logic as wide as Siberia. Truth cannot be known as truth unless it can be verified, yet you accept it as truth simply because the propaganda told you it was. Do you not see the massive flaw in reasoning here? It's elementary. How can I continue a serious conversation with such a person?

Carry on.

 

[yekmurat]

Thanks man!

So it's pretty much saying dying for the Turkish government, in the army, is equivalent to dying for Islam?

Exactly but Turkiye is not an Islamıc state so Thats not completely true..

 

[VivaRevolution]

No, we are going to agree to disagree. The fact you admit RT is propaganda then follow it up with "but the truth is the truth" shows there's a gap in your logic as wide as Siberia. Truth cannot be known as truth unless it can be verified, yet you accept it as truth simply because the propaganda told you it was. Do you not see the massive flaw in reasoning here? It's elementary. How can I continue a serious conversation with such a person?

Carry on.

No, I accept it as truth because I'm not a whack job conspiracy theorist that thinks RT, Brietbart, and the Mirror engaged in some CT involving the Rothschilds and Illuminati, to create a fake cartoon, and give a fake translation like no one would ever catch onto their brilliant scheme.

Now, hurry before Wal-mart closes, so you can go buy another roll of tin-foil.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

No, I accept it as truth because I'm not a whack job conspiracy theorist that thinks RT, Brietbart, and the Mirror engaged for some CT involving the Rothschilds and Illuminati, to create a fake cartoon, and give a fake translation like no one would ever catch onto their brilliant scheme.

Now, hurry before Wal-mart closes, so you can go buy another roll of tin-foil.

Lol. I think I've said all that needs to be said. You accept it is propaganda and also accept it as truth. Because in addition to the word of the known propagandist, it's backed up by known rags that aren't taken seriously by any intelligent person.

Truth is truth!

 

[yekmurat]

My english is not enough what you talk about very well but as a Muslim I know very well Islam is all about piece...you cant give any damage to nobody or nothing because of Allah made all the creatures and all of them belongs to Allah that simple...All the other guys are just terrorists and we hate them more than you because they make look Islam like a barbaric thing...

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Exactly but Turkiye is not an Islamıc state so Thats not completely true..

True. It's a shame this cartoon seems to represent a slide towards Islamism. Still, from your translation it does not at all seem to support the ridiculous, sensationalist headline--the type of headline that would fit right in at The National Enquirer or the 21st century Pravda, RT--of this thread, which says Turkey is "turning children into Salafist jihadis." LOL. Ridiculous.

Anyway, thanks again and stay safe. Crazy times we live in. Luckily for you you're living about as far away from the craziness as you can within Turkey.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

My english is not enough what you talk about very well but as a Muslim I know very well Islam is all about piece...you cant give any damage to nobody or nothing because of Allah made all the creatures and all of them belongs to Allah that simple...All the other guys are just terrorists and we hate them more than you because they make look Islam like a barbaric thing...

You also have to hate them most because they represent a much bigger threat to you than us, to be honest. Due to geography, Turkey is at much more risk from terrorism than Europe or the US. Syria falling apart is WAY more dangerous for Turkish people than British or Norwegian or American people. These crazy fuckers kill way more Muslims in the Middle East than anyone else.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Lol. I think I've said all that needs to be said. You accept it is propaganda and also accept it as truth. Because in addition to the word of the known propagandist, it's backed up by known rags that aren't taken seriously by any intelligent person.

Truth is truth!

Ahh, I see now where our problem is. See I understand that a liar can tell the truth, and that you should judge each statement by it's own merit. If a known liar told you your house is on fire, and you smelled smoke, you would keep walking.

 

[yekmurat]

You also have to hate them most because they represent a much bigger threat to you than us, to be honest. Due to geography, Turkey is at much more risk from terrorism than Europe or the US. Syria falling apart is WAY more dangerous for Turkish people than British or Norwegian or American people. These crazy fuckers kill way more Muslims in the Middle East than anyone else.

In 1 year our 350+ soldier and police killed no doubt Türkiye has huge problems right now...economy is horrible no tourists coming,PKK,ISIS etc...