International Turkey announces invasion of Syria

Gotta give credit where credit is due. They have some fearless ass people working for CNN. The type of people who take their work so serious that they would even attempt to send reports back from hell. Ppl are fleeing but they are not. The invading forces are not far from that location.

 
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Wtf is with the people in this thread who think this is new behavior by the USA?

This is standard great power shit, people. This isn't unusual behavior. America hasn't, in this moment, lost its international reputation.

America has done some really good things in their foreign policy, but shady shit ain't exactly outside the USA's wheelhouse. And everyone who pays a modicum of attention knows it.
 
Gotta give credit where credit is due. They have some fearless ass people working for CNN. The type of people who take their work so serious that they would even attempt to send reports back from hell. Ppl are fleeing but they are not. The invading forces are not far from that location.



Real bravery would be an anti interventionist position. The only position not allowed by the media establishment
 
The reason I was researching going was to write about it. To document the valiant fight against ISIS by the Kurds and I thought it would have been a wonderful novel. There's something sexy about a girl with eyeliner and an AK lmao.

Who knows, if I can ever fucking finish the one I'm balls deep in now maybe I'll write one anyway.

And It's not for nothing. To quote Hemingway.

"Every man's life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguish one man from another."

As to leftists supporting the Kurds It's silly to say its because "Orange Man Bad" the Kurds have enjoyed bipartian support since the first Iraq War, and during the Iraq War, and during the fight against ISIL. You may hate us Democratic Socialists but I've been to several small fundraisers ran by them.

I don’t even hate the actual communists I grew up with. I’ve witnessed grown men cry when they realize what socialism does to them and their country. I’ve made my peace with even the people that tortured my family members. How can I hate some Americans I’ve never met on the internet who have no idea what they are even talking about? Hate is def the wrong word, I kinda just feel bad if I’m honest

Alright so I see you have completely romanticized it haha
 
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Some liberals do and some don't. The stereotype of a liberal being a hippy opposing all wars is just a cliche. Some liberals oppose some wars, depending on whether the war is seen as morally justified. Then there are pro interventionist fake liberals like the Clintons and Madelline Albright who push for some wars.

The problem here is that America is partly responsible for the situation so we should do the best we can to make an amends for the shit we did.

The Yankees can’t be blamed for everything until the end of time. If I had any say it would be clean break from all things ME. Focus on the American people and our border
 
The Kurds working with the US has fucked them. Assad is allowing Turkey to attack Kurdish towns because they're "agents of Washington and Mossad"

Yes this is bad, but there is no good solution here. The major mistakes have been made long before the Trump era. USA can't protect them forever, the West can't just create a new middle east country without breaking international law and without even more middle east wars. Israel 4.0 and 5D chess? No thank you.

Unfortunately this is the only thing the Kurds really want. Turkey and many other countries too, will never accept Kurdistan. A clear cut, like Trump did it sux, but the alternative is even worse. Please tell me which realistic obligations and promises should be incurred in the direction of the Kurds exactly? The West has destabilized the entire region. To establish Kurdistan would make everything much worse.

But no worries. 2020 will be the year the American people can vote for a president with a more "responsible" middle east policy.
 
This is why Kafir-kun is my favorite Sherdogger by far to have a discussion with in regards to the Middle East. None of the partisan distractions and loud noises, just cold hard historic realities that most people choose to ignore until it's suits their talking points.

If everyone around the world who are enraged at the latest development (or to be precise, raging at Trump's decision to stay on track with the U.S withdrawal plan from Syria that was announced last December) is even 1% as concerned about the Kurds as they claims to be, not only we would already have a Kurdistan as a real country for years now, but also a bona-fide, legal, and fully-equipped International peace-keeping force already on the ground to keep the region in check when the Syrian refugees returns home, to make sure no one use that excuse for their ulterior motives against the Kurds - with or without American involvements.

To the fuming Americans in this thread, ask yourself this: "Do I really care about the Kurds enough to want to see the world make real long-term policies changes for them as a people, or do I just want to get on my soapbox and bitch each time these state-less people gets used and discard by the big boys, and pretends it's the first time they gets screwed?"

To the fuming Europeans in this thread: when are you bastards gonna hold up the promises you made to the Kurds at the Treaty of Sèvres 99 years ago about giving them their own country when you carved up the remnants of the Ottoman Empire?

Oh cool. Thousands of fighters... 30,000 Kurds are already fleeing the invaders.

Not to mention he's purging Turkey currently of pro Kurdish mayors.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/...rdish-mayors-arrests-400-190819090927327.html



Now the impending battle to come against the invaders will be interesting.



The Kurds have vowed to fight an all out war against the Turks even with a Yankee knife in their back but they do have decent anti air and anti tank munitions. Turkey will have to blitz the line. If they fall back the ISIL prisoners, the Kurds might consider releasing them to create a buffer and let the Turks and ISIL fighters kill each other.

See that post up there? It applies to you too, bud.

If you are okay with the status quo for these state-less people in the last 99 years, don't get emotional over the constant fall-outs from that status quo.

This is not the first time, nor it would be the last. The real question is, besides the momentary outrage, is there anyone care enough to change it?
 
The Yankees can’t be blamed for everything until the end of time. If I had any say it would be clean break from all things ME. Focus on the American people and our border
America should acknowledge that we are partly responsible. We screwed up a lot of people all over the world. Just as American society has been introspective and accepted some blame for the country's treatment of minorities , so to we should for our foreign policy.

ISIS came about as an unintended consequence of the Iraq war.
Our support for the Wahhabbis and attacks against Arab secularists enabled and created some of the jihadist problems facing us and the world.
 
Wtf is with the people in this thread who think this is new behavior by the USA?

This is standard great power shit, people. This isn't unusual behavior. America hasn't, in this moment, lost its international reputation.

America has done some really good things in their foreign policy, but shady shit ain't exactly outside the USA's wheelhouse. And everyone who pays a modicum of attention knows it.

Had a little discussion around the water cooler today. You'd be surprised how few of those angry, the-sky-is-falling, the-U.S-will-lose-all-credibility kind of people actually know this marks the 8th time the Kurds got screwed.

Come to think of it, I was really mad when '91 happened too. But I was a little kid back then, who knew very little about the century-long plight of Kurds and have not yet realized the sad reality of the world's ambivalence about these state-less people, excepts when they can be armed/used/abandoned by the big boys.

My view on this is very simple: either put up or shut up. The international community really cares about the Kurds? Give them their own country, and form an international peace-keeping force to protect their borders. Anything less than that is just crocodile tears or uninformed outrage, cause you know damn well they gonna get shafted over and over again by the status quo.
 
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100 soldiers keeping ethnic cleansing at bay. It's not like we have a huge deployment. The US having them tear down defenses is knowingly supporting this invasion.

30,000 have already fled in fear as the invaders roll in, they have maybe 1,000 foreign ISIL fighters.

We traded
1,000 prisoners of foreign birth
The deployment of 100 US SF operators.

For

9 dead civilians so far
100 dead Kurdish fighters
30,000 civilians fleeing in terror

This also isn't about supporting endless war. This is about knowingly giving Turkey the greenlight for invasion.

I think this is a compelling argument. I felt the same when we stripped Iraq of the US military presence and it unleashed the ISIS barbarism. But I also appreciate Obama pulling those troops out. The US is too divided domestically to be actively involved in military adventures, particularity when there are no clear US interests involved.

I've sort of rooted for the Kurds as the scrappy tough guys trying to constructively get their shit together first in northern Iraq and then in northern Syria. And Erdogan being dictatorial makes it easy to root against him. But active Kurdish militias operating near the Turkish border is a legit security concern. The last thing anyone needs rights now is a Turkish civil war centered on Kurdish secession.

There's no good answers here. I don't like the troops being pulled out. I don't like the troops remaining either. I've had enough relatives shot in the Middle East.
 
I think this is a compelling argument. I felt the same when we stripped Iraq of the US military presence and it unleashed the ISIS barbarism. But I also appreciate Obama pulling those troops out. The US is too divided domestically to be actively involved in military adventures, particularity when there are no clear US interests involved.

I've sort of rooted for the Kurds as the scrappy tough guys trying to constructively get their shit together first in northern Iraq and then in northern Syria. And Erdogan being dictatorial makes it easy to root against him. But active Kurdish militias operating near the Turkish border is a legit security concern. The last thing anyone needs rights now is a Turkish civil war centered on Kurdish secession.

There's no good answers here. I don't like the troops being pulled out. I don't like the troops remaining either. I've had enough relatives shot in the Middle East.
The troops are still there.
 
I doubt they will be there much longer, but the key thing is that they are not currently deployed between opposing armed forces, including those of our purported ally.
They were literally the only reason there was peace.

You saying you doubt they will be there longer is superceded by the fact there is no schedule for bringing them home. In fact, they aren't coming home, we don't need to make believe so you can add credence to this patently corrupt decision.

Here's what happened...

Erdogan met with Trump.

Erdogan offered Trump something if he'd withdraw troops and let Turkey attack the Kurds.

Trump said ok.

We don't need to debate this either, it's 100% what happened and you're a fool if you believe other. Trump sold out and signed on to the slaughter of Kurds. Color me shocked when it comes out he did it for personal gain.
 
Turkey's actions in Syria must be measured: NATO chief

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ROME (Reuters) - Turkey’s military operation in northeastern Syria must be restrained, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said on Wednesday, adding that it was important not to destabilize the region any further.

Stoltenberg told reporters that Turkey had “legitimate security concerns” and had informed NATO about its attack against Kurdish fighters in Syria.

“I count on Turkey to act with restraint and ensure that any action it may take in northern Syria is proportionate and measured,” he said after meeting Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte. “It is important to avoid actions that may further destabilize the region, escalate tensions and cause more human suffering.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ria-must-be-measured-nato-chief-idUSKBN1WO1YO
 
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