Economy Trump's April 2nd Tariffs

[Rational Poster]

Whataboutism



Great, so we're in agreement



What about me, it isn't fair



What about what about what about



what about what about what about meeee




Voting is a popularity contest and in that context yes, Trump was a serious candidate and Kamala was not.

You don't even know what whataboutism is. lmao

 

[Darkavius]

You’re late, that was already posted and we’ve already mocked the shit out of you guys for it—both because that flies in the face of the explanation that it was to bring back manufacturing jobs and factories and now all of a sudden it isn’t, and also because the EU’s tariffs on us were only like 1.6% (aside from cars, which was only 10% and they don’t import many of those anyhow).

We really didn’t need to tank the global economy to try and get Europe from 1.6% to 0 did we? Art of the Deal, I guess.

He said it works but what I am having trouble understanding is compared to other nations if I am a European trading partner what does America have to offer me? I am genuinely curious what does America offer that I can't get cheaper or of better quality somewhere else? Cars, I can get from Asian countries. Coffee, I can get from countries like Mexico. Computer parts, I can get those from China.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Kamala ran a super moderate campaign and didn't lean into any cultural issues. Trump ran a campaign almost strictly based on cultural grievances, full of racism and misogyny, and voters rewarded him for it.

The counter-argument to this is that her 100 day campaign was not enough to shake the image of being a progressive candidate which she earned in the 2020 primary and by association with the Biden admin. On some level that's not entirely unfair, if in the last 100 days Trump 180'd on losing the 2020 election I wouldn't believe that he suddenly cares about the importance of liberal democracy and its norms/institutions as much as he cared about winning the election.

But from what I can see most of the people who complained about the Democrats running on cultural issues are the ones most tuned into cultural issues and usually the least informed about economic policy. The fact that anyone is surprised by Trump's disastrous tariff plan when it was his signature economic policy is baffling to me. You could ask him about childcare and he'd somehow find a way to argue that tariffs are the solution. He had no economic policy beyond tariffs, why wouldn't you think he was going to impose tariffs?

 

[Fedor>Cain]

The dems had the opportunity to not lie about Biden for 4 years, then had the option to pick someone other than the worst presidential candidate they could think of.

They didn't just drop the ball they tied their own shoelaces together because they thought they were unbeatable and ate fucking shit for it, so yes, they have blood on their hands for Trumps actions. Trump does too but he wouldn't be in the position to do what he is doing if the dems weren't arrogant pieces of shit and listened to what people wanted.

The dems could have stopped Trump from winning but they didnt.

If they'd run a serious candidate and lost it'd be a different story, but they chose not to so they absolutely share some blame.

The funniest part about all of this is that Kamala stood on stage and told you this fucking idiot was going to cause inflation, crash the economy, and lead us into a recession by the middle of 2025



And I don't even like Kamala lmao. You people are children that don't understand pragmatism.

Maybe the worst dem candidate in a long time, but still about 50 fucking million times better than AGolf Hitler

 

[Limbo Pete]

So what do you want me to do? I'm extremely unhappy with the democrats and my options to address that are very limited....gonna tell me to just keep voting blue no matter who and hoping they deliver that hope and change some day? I'm fed up.

What I'm saying is you should vote for whoever you want, but be prepared to get called out on the logical inconsistency re: today's conversation, etc

 

[syct23]

He said it works but what I am having trouble understanding is compared to other nations if I am a European trading partner what does America have to offer me? I am genuinely curious what does America offer that I can't get cheaper or of better quality somewhere else? Cars, I can get from Asian countries. Coffee, I can get from countries like Mexico. Computer parts, I can get those from China.

Well,

It used to protect your trading routes.. EU imported trade protection from the U.S. nothing more.

Made it cheaper and safer for EU to import. Not so much anymore.

 

[MMA IAN]

It just strikes me as really weird and misplaced to blame the Dems for the Trump presidency and not Trump himself or the GOP or their voters. Its like in your eyes that the GOP is not accountable for anything, even the things they themselves do, and that everything can be blamed on Democrats. Strikes me as awfully convenient rational for someone who just doesn't like the Dems for other reasons.

I'm not saying this is all their fault, I'm saying they share some blame due to the choices they made contributing to America being where they are now.

Everyone that voted for Trump played a part in electing him and causing this. That's blindingly obvious because they voted for him. But it's ridiculous to pretend the democratic party doesn't bear any blame for their dogshit lacklustre efforts when 'democracy is on the line' and apparently your economy too.

It strikes me as weird people are still unwilling to accept that the dems massively fucked up and their fuck up is a big part of why Trumps there.

You don't know what whataboutism means

Not being able to prevent something isn't the same as being responsible for something

Dems weren't able to organise someone better than Kamala Harris during the 4 years Biden was president? OK.

Dems weren't able to read the room and develop some popular policies in those 4 years? OK.

Its only a popularity contest because tons of Americans are like children incapable of analyzing anything seriously and even when proven wrong they blame anything but themselves.

I'm glad you concede Kamala was a bad candidate for that reason. Ty.

Do yourself a favor and never vote again, you already have shown us that even when they tell you exactly the fuckery they want to do, you still vote wrong.

I'm gonna vote for Trump EVEN HARDER next time!

You don't even know what whataboutism is. lmao

 

[Islam Imamate]

I mean sort of. I've been honest this whole time and you guys keep trying to attribute all kinds of bullshit to me and telling me I just have to keep voting Democrat or the Republicans are gonna get us.

I said at the very beginning I don't want any more gun control(culture war) and I want national Healthcare. Why do I have to change my views and where my line in the sand is when it's clear as day that none of you are.

These days gun laws vary a lot from state to state so if you don't want to vote Dem at the state and local level because of gun control that's fine. I didn't vote for Andrew Gillum against Ron DeSantis because Gillum wanted to institute a state income tax and an assault weapons ban.

But if you can't see how uniquely bad Trump was as a candidate then I can only assume you haven't been paying attention, at least not to what matters.

He said it works but what I am having trouble understanding is compared to other nations if I am a European trading partner what does America have to offer me? I am genuinely curious what does America offer that I can't get cheaper or of better quality somewhere else? Cars, I can get from Asian countries. Coffee, I can get from countries like Mexico. Computer parts, I can get those from China.

America has high end weaponry like the F-35. That's what Trumpers don't get, its not that manufacturing has left the US entirely but rather that its upgraded to high tech manufacturing that relies on automation and an educated, skilled workforce. And that's a good thing. If you want more Americans working in manufacturing here in the US then we need to train and educate more engineers and software developers who go on to work at defense contractors.

Doesn't even have to be defense related even, some defense contractors like Boeing and Lockheed Martin also work on civilian applications of high end manfuacturing. And if some of that supply chain is in Canada and/or Mexico, who cares?

 

[Rod1]

the Republicans are gonna get us.

No, just Trump and you just need to not vote Trump.

That wasn't that hard, literally any other Republican or Democrat was fine, none would have launched this idiotic trade war, nor would had chosen to suck on Putin's cock.

 

[Gutter Chris]

What I'm saying is you should vote for whoever you want, but be prepared to get called out on the logical inconsistency re: today's conversation, etc

I'm good with that. It was fun but I'm pretty sure I missed getting back to a bunch of people. I don't think I've ever clashed with everyone all at one time before and it was amusing.

I'm mad at politics but you guys are still my buddies just cuz we don't agree.

 

[Cartiac]

The regime is offering contradictory explanations though. For one they're citing the rationale you've explained here, that's its about reshoring manufacturing. Let's set aside all the reasons why that almost certainly won't happen for a minute, some spokesmen for regime are also justifying them as a negotiating tactic to get better trade deals. And yet others are saying that they're a way to raise revenue to pay for tax cuts elsewhere.

You can see how these are contradictory right? If they're for reshoring manufacturing, then they need to be stable and predictable so companies can plan ahead. But if they're a negotiating tactic then you can't take the current rates for granted so companies won't invest on the basis of the current tariff rates because they're expecting them to be adjusted through bilateral trade deals. And if you want to impose them to raise revenue to pay for tax cuts then you wouldn't necessarily want manufacturing to return because that would eat into the revenue from the tariffs.

You can't incentivize manufacturing, negotiate a bunch of bilateral trade deals, and raise revenue from tariffs all at once. The more likely explanations is that Trump generally has no idea what he's doing and has almost a voodoo like belief in the efficacy of tariffs and so he's decided to slap them on against the better judgement of anyone who knows better and now his cronies are scrambling to justify it by reaching for multiple, contradictory explanations. Do you think I'm getting anything wrong there?

If this was really good for US manufacturing why wouldn't stocks associated with US manufacturers have gone up? Could it be because US manufacturers have supply chains across North America and the world so that even they will suffer from these tariffs?

Kamala was talking about economic issues though, much more so than cultural ones from what I remember. For example she was advocating for bringing back the expanded child tax credit which is a policy I strongly support and was one of the big reasons I was voting for Kamala aside from wanting to see Trump lose.

I didn't even agree with all her economic policies like the $25k subsidy for first time homebuyers(bad idea in a high demand, low supply environment) or the tax on unrealized capital gains(discourages investment and hard to assess) but I don't think its fair to say Kamala was only talking about cultural issues when if anything it was the Trump campaign that leaned heavily into said cultural issues.

The one economic policy Trump ran on, 10%-20% tariffs across the board, was so stupid that even supporters had to caveat their support for him by saying he would obviously not do it even though it was his signature economic policy.

So riddle me this. If tariffs are such a destructive thing to a country and Trump has no idea what he is doing, the US is going to suffer, why do other countries respond by adding even more tariffs? Is the logic haha look at the idiot Trump over there destroying the US and to prove how stupid he is I'm going to destroy my own country?

 

[Rod1]

Dems weren't able to organise someone better than Kamala Harris during the 4 years Biden was president? OK.

Kamala Harris was objectively a better person and more fit for the job than Trump, not that its a high bar. Nikki Haley would have also been a much better president than Trump but voters chose Trump.

Dems weren't able to read the room

GOP wasn't able to read the room and develop popular alternatives to Trump either, Nikki Haley was the best the anti-MAGA GOP could come up with?

and develop some popular policies in those 4 years? OK.

Because starting a trade war was a super popular policy?

You already conceded that elections are not about policy but about popularity.

I'm gonna vote for Trump EVEN HARDER next time!

Cool, and like a Dindu you will still blame others for it.

 

[WuDi]

Nobody outside of Ford/Tesla sells any us cars in Europe, they aren't desirable

Maybe in the circle of "car is just a tool to get me from place a to b" people. They are highly desired in the car enthusiast crowd, but the cars are taced out of the market or blocked due to "regulations". It's not just American cars affected, Europe is blocking Japanese cars too, look at Suzuki Jimny and Mitsubishi cars.

 

[syct23]

She was being really wishy washy on healthcare , is totally anti gun and I really hate



I'm good with that. It was fun but I'm pretty sure I missed getting back to a bunch of people. I don't think I've ever clashed with everyone all at one time before and it was amusing.

I'm mad at politics but you guys are still my buddies just cuz we don't agree.

Well now that we smeared the queer,

You can pass the ball to someone else…

 

[Gutter Chris]

Well now that we smeared the queer,

You can pass the ball to someone else…

I was trying to respond to like 50 of you at once there man you guys mobbed me and my screen is a mess.

It was a good game.

I still feel the same way I did and I'm sure you do too.

You guys killed my battery

Well do it again soon.

 

[BFoe]

He said it works but what I am having trouble understanding is compared to other nations if I am a European trading partner what does America have to offer me? I am genuinely curious what does America offer that I can't get cheaper or of better quality somewhere else? Cars, I can get from Asian countries. Coffee, I can get from countries like Mexico. Computer parts, I can get those from China.

Well, we are your #1 supplier of crude oil and petroleum. But also things like aircraft and spacecraft.

But either way, we are supposed to be allies and should have a healthy trade relationship with minimal tariffs—which we did have before Trump came on the scene and fucked everything up, as is his nature.

 

[Rod1]

So riddle me this. If tariffs are such a destructive thing to a country and Trump has no idea what he is doing, the US is going to suffer, why do other countries respond by adding even more tariffs?

In the case of China is simply out of spite, they also import way less and thus they are hurt less.

In the case of others like Mexico, they haven't levied tariffs and in the case of the EU they are going to study which things they can tariff without hurting themselves, also they are going to look at the American political landscape and levy tariffs based on which States are likely to suffer most and thus create a political issue for the GOP.

For example there is about zero chance Mexico levies tariffs on US gas and oil, which are the top imports from the US, but they will likely tariff some American agriculture products.

Is the logic haha look at the idiot Trump over there destroying the US and to prove how stupid he is I'm going to destroy my own country?

with the big difference is that America tariffed the entire world, while the response will most likely result in tariffing only America and other countries will try to look for alliances to stop relying on the US.

For example China can look to buy more food from Brazil and Argentina to off-set American products.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm not saying this is all their fault, I'm saying they share some blame due to the choices they made contributing to America being where they are now.

Everyone that voted for Trump played a part in electing him and causing this. That's blindingly obvious because they voted for him. But it's ridiculous to pretend the democratic party doesn't bear any blame for their dogshit lacklustre efforts when 'democracy is on the line' and apparently your economy too.

It strikes me as weird people are still unwilling to accept that the dems massively fucked up and their fuck up is a big part of why Trumps there.

I don't really get this POV, obviously Dems tried to win the election and in the end it was quite close. Trump didn't even secure half the popular vote and he only won it by a 1.5% margin.

The fact that the Dems pushed Biden out with ~100 days til the election showed how seriously they took this election. If they were running against Nikki Haley or Mitt Romney I don't think Biden gets pushed out and I don't think Kamala becomes the nominee, I suspect they just let Biden get slaughtered and then bet everything on the next cycle. I doubt Kamala herself would've wanted the nomination if it wasn't for the sake of beating Trump, most people have one good run for the presidency in their career and they're not going to want to risk that one chance on a 100 day campaign.

Its like getting a short notice title fight, some guys will turn it down if its too close to fight night knowing that bungling the shot in the near term can hurt their long term title aspirations.

So riddle me this. If tariffs are such a destructive thing to a country and Trump has no idea what he is doing, the US is going to suffer, why do other countries respond by adding even more tariffs? Is the logic haha look at the idiot Trump over there destroying the US and to prove how stupid he is I'm going to destroy my own country?

Most countries don't want to go to war but if another declares war on them then they'll declare war in response. That's kind of like how tariffs work to some extent.

From a purely economic POV though there is some truth to the idea that even if another country imposes tariffs on you you shouldn't impose tariffs on them to reduce the damage from the trade war but from a political perspective you want to impose reciprocal tariffs so the country faces pain and decides to reconsider. Normally the US is such a giant it could probably win a trade war against one or a few small to medium sized countries at once but Trump has declared an all out trade war so from the POV of the world's economies it might make sense to impose tariffs so we have an acutely painful but short trade war rather than a slightly less bad one that drags on for longer.

But yes tariffs are indeed that bad that even with their being imposed on you there's an argument that reciprocal tariffs would be counter-productive. IMO what the countries of the world should do is focus on integrating with each other rather than punishing the US.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

I hope this is a bluff by Trump to renegotiate tariffs/trade deals with other countries, I don't think this is the case though unfortunately.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

I was trying to respond to like 50 of you at once there man you guys mobbed me and my screen is a mess.

It was a good game.

I still feel the same way I did and I'm sure you do too.

You guys killed my battery

Well do it again soon.