Crime Trump-Ukraine Megathread v4

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

He conditioned the request for javelins with the request for a favor.

Or every country he begs for help does it happily for free!

 

[Rational Poster]

Christ. Now you are on the Verbatim schtick

You do realize this is the way it has been done for many administrations. Including Clinton, Bush and Obama

Many administrations used the office of the President and US foreign aid as tools to investigate their political rivals for the benefit of their own re-election campaign? Source?

 

[Rational Poster]

Except the actual transcript proves that to be complete bullshit

We don't even have the actual transcripts, we have a summary provided by the accused.

 

[Confucamus]

He conditioned the request for javelins with the request for a favor.

"Conditioned the request?" Where did he specifically mention aid would be withheld if the Ukraine didn't investigate Biden? This is the crux of the impeachment talks and I believe there should be more than just people's perceptions.

 

[sdpdude9]

We don't even have the actual transcripts, we have a summary provided by the accused.

And also completely confirms it anyways.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Except you just made that up. Unless you actually believe the Adam Parody was real

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 100% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union, especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it, if that's possible.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

We don't even have the actual transcripts, we have a summary provided by the accused.

I'm sure the president is eager to prove his innocence by testifying under oath. He's an honest man, and as he's said, honest men have nothing to hide.

I mean, it only looks like he's hiding.
For no particular reason.

 

[SBJJ]

You’re wrong dude. Not just any quid pro quo is wrong. The US government can make deals like this with foreign governments but NOT for personal or political gain.

Biden was acting on behalf of the United States government (including Republicans) and allies that all wanted to remove a prosecutor who wasn’t pursuing corruption charges. This wasn’t for personal or political reasons, as posited by the right, because the move would have actually been detrimental if his son had done anything wrong, because it was to put in a prosecutor that would further look into that company or any other potential corruption.

Trump on the other hand, his motive was clear. He was seeking a foreign government to dig up (or manufacture) dirt on his political rival. That’s illegal. He wasn’t looking for corruption as the right claims, and if he was really concerned and had any basis for this conspiracy, then he would have went through his own intelligence agencies, not foreign governments.

Aside from quid pro quo not being necessary, we have it from the text messages that clearly lay out that Trump had made it a prerequisite for the Ukrainian Government to investigate Biden to receive desperately needed military aid, let alone even have a phone call or potential meeting. That’s pretty explicit quid pro quo leveraging his office for personal, political gain.

Except the prosecutors involved disagree with you. And one is in court swearing to it.

Also, what happened to Burisma after the prosecutors were canned is evidence. This and other corruption cases were shelved AFTER Biden got involved.

You can scream HE WAS CORRUPT all you want. But the evidence shows that Burisma was given a pass AFTER his firing

Your narrative that Joe was mad that the prosecutor was not investigating the corrupt company his son was getting paid by is just...........ludicrous

 

[Rational Poster]

"Conditioned the request?" Where did he specifically mention aid would be withheld if the Ukraine didn't investigate Biden? This is the crux of the impeachment talks and I believe there should be more than just people's perceptions.

So when someone asks you for something and then you ask them for a favor.. what would you call that?

 

[Jack V Savage]

But what reason was the aid withheld for? I saw Trump say why it was withheld but where is the definitive proof that it was withheld pending Ukraine's help investigating Biden? And why wasn't it mentioned on the call?

I don't think that that's how any human would communicate, especially one who is very aware that he's doing something illegal. "As you know, I've been withholding aid for reasons that I have not made clear. Now I'm going to tell you why." I think that any reasonable person hearing (or as in our case reading) the president's words would understand the message.

 

[*Z*]

Except the actual transcript proves that to be complete bullshit

*memo

 

[Confucamus]

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 100% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union, especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it, if that's possible.

Where does Trump say the javelins will be withheld pending the participation of the Ukraine in investigating Joe Biden? Please, can somebody answer this?

From what you quoted, it looks like Trump wants the origins of the Russiagate looked into. Well, why wouldn't he? That is a massive scandal.

 

[Jack V Savage]

There was no actual question to answer. Think you are mixing up posts

No.

Sorry. It is the definition of a QPQ

Carrying out U.S. gov't policy that was crafted in the national interest (with bipartisan support, BTW) and had no personal impact on him, though. Surely you see the difference.

We get it, you think it's ok because your team did it. We are used to this with you.

You're again trying to normalize your partisanship and abdication of moral responsibility by presenting it as normal or using the "rubber/glue" defense. Do better.

But again, it is stupid to go after Biden on this when it was likely very common. Even though the prosecutors involved are on record stating they were fired because Joe wanted Burisma protected

The prosecutors involved in what? What are you talking about? You mean the corrupt guy that everyone wanted fired for ignoring corruption?

 

[foxnoob]

Except you posted about polls regarding an inquiry and said it was impeachment

Sad. Very sad. Extremely sad

@SBJJ still bottom of the barrel stupid. Trump is going to be impeached and you'll still not know anything about politics. Not sure why you spend your entire life on here talking about things you are completely ignorant on but if there's no life there to begin with...

 

[Andy Capp]

Surely not James Comey’s impeccable FBI.

I'll believe it when I see it from a legitimate source. The Daily Caller is garbage.

Consider that a PSA. Good day.

In fairness, I found the story was reported by the Washington Post and Reuters, so it appears to be true. However. "The FBI official, who resigned from the agency during the probe, initially told the inspector general’s office under oath that the official had paid for the tickets, but later admitted that was not so."

So, meh. Someone does something unprofessional and improper, gets caught, loses job. Call me when the far far worse professional impropriety on the part of Barr and Trump result in them losing their jobs.

I'll wait.

 

[SBJJ]

President Zelenskyy: Yes you are absolutely right. Not only 100%, but actually 100% and I can tell you the following; I did talk to Angela Merkel and I did meet with her. I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much as they need to be doing on the issues with the sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not working as much as they should work for Ukraine. It turns out that even though logically, the European Union should be our biggest partner but technically the United States is a much bigger partner than the European Union and I'm very grateful to you for that because the United States is doing quite a lot for Ukraine. Much more than the European Union, especially when we are talking about sanctions against the Russian Federation. I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it, if that's possible.

You do understand that what you posted is actually pretty awesome. Everyone should want Ukraine to come clean with the DOJs investigation. In fact by treaty Ukraine is bound to.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

 

[SBJJ]

@SBJJ still bottom of the barrel stupid. Trump is going to be impeached and you'll still not know anything about politics. Not sure why you spend your entire life on here talking about things you are completely ignorant on but if there's no life there to begin with...

I hope he is impeached

Weird being called stupid by someone who did not know the difference between an inquiry and an actual impeachment.

But it might grab you a couple of likes by the hyperpartisan goof troop

 

[Confucamus]

So when someone asks you for something and then you ask them for a favor.. what would you call that?

So you answer my question with a question. Great.

I don't think that that's how any human would communicate, especially one who is very aware that he's doing something illegal. "As you know, I've been withholding aid for reasons that I have not made clear. Now I'm going to tell you why." I think that any reasonable person hearing (or as in our case reading) the president's words would understand the message.

I think if you're talking about unseating a democratically elected President, the standard of your evidence should be a little bit better than how you believe a human would or would not communicate with another person and how a "reasonable" person would interpret the conversation.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

But what reason was the aid withheld for? I saw Trump say why it was withheld but where is the definitive proof that it was withheld pending Ukraine's help investigating Biden? And why wasn't it mentioned on the call?

You don't have to be so explicit. Who would literally say "Give me this or I'll deny you that" on a monitored call? If you bring the conversation to aid and then make a request the suggestion is plain enough.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Are the former prosecutors under duress also? Is anyone that disagrees with your narrative either under duress or lying?

And yea, since the call never touched on Aid for dirt I think we should probably just give Zelensky the benefit of the doubt

You've got your head in the sand.