Trump on Pollution

[LMP]

Never once did I say you were lying. Get a grip buddy as you're about to go completely sideways. And again the sources you linked don't say what you think they say. I also love how you're now injecting "boot licker" because you think you've got some kind of moral superiority.

You could have done reasearched it yourself and saved us both any trouble. You were to busy going on and about Trump. I told you I didn't care yet you wanted to say I lack "credibility" you do know that the same as liar to some people. So you kept calling me out. I deliver it to you. You were wrong as shit. You go on to say "exactly as I thought". Not exactly as you thought. You can twist all you want. Yea people who won't check anything against their boy Trump are boot lockers. Yes I like to use the term boot licker. Yes you are a boot licker. Now eat your crow, you made me serve to your ass. Tell me how wrong you were.

You wanted to say I wouldn't back it up. Now spit those words out. "I'm sorry I was wrong".

 

[7437]

You're better than this.

We both know thats not true

Without even looking through them, I'll guess that 80+% of those are repeals of new Obama rules/regs. Was the environment in terrible shape when Obama took office?

If Trump wants to repeal "pretty much all pollution regulations", as @7437 says, why isn't Trump pushing for repeal of the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act?

Because Trump hasnt acutally made any legislation at all. In fact, it appears he is incapable. He just looks at what other people do

 

[usmctanker242]

You could have done reasearched it yourself and saved us both any trouble. You were to busy going on and about Trump. I told you I didn't care yet you wanted to say I lack "credibility" you do know that the same as liar to some people. So you kept calling me out. I deliver it to you. You were wrong as shit. You go on to say "exactly as I thought". Not exactly as you thought. You can twist all you want. Yea people who won't check anything against their boy Trump are boot lockers. Yes I like to use the term boot licker. Yes you are a boot licker. Now eat your crow, you made me serve to your ass. Tell me how wrong you were.

You wanted to say I wouldn't back it up. Now spit those words out. "I'm sorry I was wrong".

Mother of gawd chill the hell out and try to comprehend my posts. And while you're at it re-read your source and you'll see it doesn't say what you think it says. I asked you for a source and that means I think you're lying? If you take something as simple as that this personally then maybe forums just aren't for you.

Again, your source DOES NOT say what you think it says. Not ALL Federal Lands are parks and it's parks specifically about which I was asking.
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/trump-on-pollution.3681705/page-7#post-137045021

Looking back I think you were talking about the reduction of the Interior's Budget and I was talking about parks... looks like maybe that's where the wires got crossed in our "conversation." No worries, take it easy buddeh.

 

[usmctanker242]

We both know thats not true




Because Trump hasnt acutally made any legislation at all. In fact, it appears he is incapable. He just looks at what other people do

What do you mean here? The president is head of the executive branch, not the legislative branch, so he shouldn't be authoring any legislation.
https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/articles/article-i

But Trump certainly has passed some legislation as is his duty.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/politics/president-trump-legislation/index.html

 

[waiguoren]

Because Trump hasnt acutally made any legislation at all. In fact, it appears he is incapable. He just looks at what other people do

Presidents don't typically "make legislation". Which legislation did President Obama "make"?

Anyway, you're seriously contending that Trump would sign a repeal of the Clean Air Act if such a bill were to come across his desk?

 

[LMP]

Mother of gawd chill the hell out and try to comprehend my posts. And while you're at it re-read your source and you'll see it doesn't say what you think it says. I asked you for a source and that means I think you're lying? If you take something as simple as that this personally then maybe forums just aren't for you.

Again, your source DOES NOT say what you think it says. Not ALL Federal Lands are parks and it's parks specifically about which I was asking.
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/trump-on-pollution.3681705/page-7#post-137045021

Looking back I think you were talking about the reduction of the Interior's Budget and I was talking about parks... looks like maybe that's where the wires got crossed in our "conversation." No worries, take it easy buddeh.

You do know who manages national park don't you? Of course not. Jesus Christ. You can keep twisting. Still won't say sorry will you. Keep trying to back up but you got no where to go with this. In no part of this were you kinda right at all.

You a spewing bullshit bro. You have no clue on this issue at all. The Department of the Interior is over the National Park Service.

You should try next time to know some basics. I think you are dumb ass shit and cant even admit when your wrong. Tell me sorry, tell me how dumb you are. Tell me how you lack enough knowledge to make an informed opinion. All you care about is your cheerleading for Trump. While I think he has done a shit job so far, his economy has been good. Look I said something nice about your hero.


So let's break down what you learned today.

1 the Department of the Interior is over the national parks.

2 Defunding the Department of the Interior is a work around not being able to close national parks.

3 Trump planned to open up national lands to oil companies before he went into office.

4 Trump has lessened national lands by more than 1 million acres so far.

5 You have a very hard time admitting you are wrong.

 

[usmctanker242]

You do know who manages national park don't you? Of course not. Jesus Christ. You can keep twisting. Still won't say sorry will you. Keep trying to back up but you got no where to go with this. In no part of this were you kinda right at all.

You a spewing bullshit bro. You have no clue on this issue at all. The Department of the Interior is over the National Park Service.

You should try next time to know some basics. I think you are dumb ass shit and cant even admit when your wrong. Tell me sorry, tell me how dumb you are. Tell me how you lack enough knowledge to make an informed opinion. All you care about is your cheerleading for Trump. While I think he has done a shit job so far, his economy has been good. Look I said something nice about your hero.


So let's break down what you learned today.

1 the Department of the Interior is over the national parks.

2 Defunding the Department of the Interior is a work around not being able to close national parks.

3 Trump planned to open up national lands to oil companies before he went into office.

4 Trump has lessened national lands by more than 1 million acres so far.

5 You have a very hard time admitting you are wrong.

Oh wise and benevolent God, please do grace me with thou's mercy, for I dared to not take your word as proof... because, you know, asking someone to backup a claim is heresy apparently.

 

[LMP]

Oh wise and benevolent God, please do grace me with thou's mercy, for I dared to not take your word as proof... because, you know, asking someone to backup a claim is heresy apparently.

It's alright son, I hope you learned some things. I hope you now accept my blessing to educate yourself, not rely on others.

Go from here now my child, knowledge will help you on your path.

 

[usmctanker242]

It's alright son, I hope you learned some things. I hope you now accept my blessing to educate yourself, not rely on others.

Go from here now my child, knowledge will help you on your path.

LMAO... this was good. Cheers buddeh!

 

[dudeguyman]

If you're actually interested here take some time and look into all of the "horrible things" Trump did. MOST of this crap is part of his reduction of bureaucracy, ie the "remove 2 regulations and replace them with one" stuff.

Just so you know coal miner's still can't just throw their shit into the water. Obama signed this bill into law on Dec of 2016, right before he left office. So all that really happened is the regulations were reverted to where they were just a few weeks earlier.
https://www.osmre.gov/programs/rcm/streamprotectionrule.shtm

so he didn't specifically terminate that dumping rule, but kinda just negated obama's last few bold changes on a variety of things?

 

[Andy Capp]

17. Removed a number of species from the endangered list
Arguing that they no longer warranted protection, the Trump administration removed a number of species from the endangered and threatened species lists, including the Yellowstone grizzly bear, which the Obama administration had also proposed removing. While Republicans had long pushed to have the bears removed, environmentalists said the population had not yet recovered.

So you disagree with Obama on this one, or?

I didn't make the list and I didn't vet it. I have no doubt there's the odd one that may be agreeable. Irrelevant. Just more intellectual dishonesty from the orange ball washers. Do you support poisoning children's water supply or don't you?

 

[usmctanker242]

so he didn't specifically terminate that dumping rule, but kinda just negated obama's last few bold changes on a variety of things?

Yeah, that's how it sounds from reading about the act that Obama put into place. Unfortunately the "journalists" got a hold of it and made sure to report it as "Trump is evil, wants to poison children" or close to that, as you saw in that list. Best part is the NY Times didn't even source a single one of those regulations in that list.

 

[waiguoren]

Do you support poisoning children's water supply or don't you?

So the children's water supply contained poison prior to one of Obama's regs? Which poison? Did any kids die or get ill from the poisoning?

 

[Andy Capp]

Yeah, that's how it sounds from reading about the act that Obama put into place. Unfortunately the "journalists" got a hold of it and made sure to report it as "Trump is evil, wants to poison children" or close to that, as you saw in that list. Best part is the NY Times didn't even source a single one of those regulations in that list.

So the children's water supply contained poison prior to one of Obama's regs? Which poison? Did any kids die or get ill from the poisoning?

Nope, not wasting any more time on you clowns. Happy holidays.

 

[usmctanker242]

Do you support poisoning children's water supply or don't you?

Are you suggesting that for almost all 8 years of Obama's administration he supported poisoning the water supply of children? The rule didn't go into effect until Dec 20, 2016 after Obama was already lamed up... damned rule wasn't even born until 2015 after a civilian "watch-dog" conservation group sued the Interior. So it's not like Obama or the Democrats were the one's pushing for this in the first place.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2015-07-27/pdf/2015-17308.pdf

Here you can find all of the valid documents and courses of action for this entire affair.
https://www.osmre.gov/programs/rcm/streamprotectionrule.shtm


LMAO... and you have the audacity to call others clowns. Either way enjoy the holidays!

 

[jk7707]

A pretty good summary of the way Trump's EPA deals with this stuff...


"Since 2010, the Environmental Protection Agency has been embroiled in an enforcement battle with a Michigan-based company accused of modifying the state’s largest coal-fired power plant without getting federal permits for a projected rise in pollution.

On Dec. 7, as the Supreme Court was considering whether to hear the case, EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt issued a memo that single-handedly reversed the agency’s position. No longer would the EPA be “second-guessing” DTE Energy’s emission projections. Rather, it would accept the firm’s “intent” to manage its pollution without requiring an enforceable agreement — part of President Trump’s broader push to reduce the “burden” on companies, he wrote."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...9728984779c_story.html?utm_term=.a7552f9acc3c

 

[The Best JG]

Again, you're regurgitating "talking points" about solar energy rather than addressing the actual thermal issues. There's an energy cost associated with capturing solar energy (even in space), getting it into our atmosphere, and again in converting it into usable energy. One of my professors was working on new materials for solar energy and I believe her when she said that solar energy is nearing it's apex of usability. While I have no issue with further study / research into this area I firmly believe it's not going to be the "clean energy" solution people seem to believe it will be.

Anyways, good discussion, always nice to debate people where it doesn't rapidly turn into mocking / memes / poison. Cheers buddy!

I just dont like to limit our future state to our current understanding / tech. Like i said in an earlier post we just proved existence of gravitational waves only 2 years ago, before that they were completely theoretical and many people in here would call it fantasy because it was just based on a 100 year old einstein theory but they are in fact real and constantly passing through us and the earth, unmitigated by matter. Maybe we will be able to generate energy from those waves in the future, we have no idea yet but its definitely something worth looking into.

We need to accept that humans still have a very limited understanding of the universe and there is potential to make advances we dont undersfand yet.

Another example is the EM drive. With our current understanding of physical laws its supposed to be impossible however the tech seems promising none the less

We also dont understand dark energy or dark matter yet, but astrophysicists are convinced its out there due to how the galaxies are formed and rotate

We are still just basic creatures trying to figure out everything, to say we are reaching any kind of limit is silly. If you look back, humanity often thinks they are reach technology limits, yet today we are still making the greatest advancements to date.

We might not even be using the proper materials for our solar panels yet. Maybe attaching an amplifying lens to the panel increases the energy production 10 fold. We dont know until we research more, something dirty energy producers will spend big money to inhibit.

 

[peytonlucy]

You make it sound like pollution is a bad thing. I'm sure that Obama solved all those problems.

 

[usmctanker242]

A pretty good summary of the way Trump's EPA deals with this stuff...


"Since 2010, the Environmental Protection Agency has been embroiled in an enforcement battle with a Michigan-based company accused of modifying the state’s largest coal-fired power plant without getting federal permits for a projected rise in pollution.

On Dec. 7, as the Supreme Court was considering whether to hear the case, EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt issued a memo that single-handedly reversed the agency’s position. No longer would the EPA be “second-guessing” DTE Energy’s emission projections. Rather, it would accept the firm’s “intent” to manage its pollution without requiring an enforceable agreement — part of President Trump’s broader push to reduce the “burden” on companies, he wrote."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...9728984779c_story.html?utm_term=.a7552f9acc3c

What's the issue with this memo? The appellate courts weren't clear in the matter and the EPA has asked that the matter be addressed by the Supreme Court. So until the matter is fully resolved the EPA isn't going to get into a dick measuring content with companies over projected emissions figures as long as those figures appear to be valid. In the case of DTE, after all of this legal posturing, the end result was that their upgrades DECREASED overall emissions. As stated in the last page of the memo the state agencies are still in charge of all of this as long as they already have an EPA approved plain in effect.

I don't know enough about legal precedent but since this issue is likely going to continue to be under litigation it seems like it's a reasonable move by the EPA to not overstep their enforcement boundaries until it's the litigation is all wrapped up.

 

[usmctanker242]

I just dont like to limit our future state to our current understanding / tech. Like i said in an earlier post we just proved existence of gravitational waves only 2 years ago, before that they were completely theoretical and many people in here would call it fantasy because it was just based on a 100 year old einstein theory but they are in fact real and constantly passing through us and the earth, unmitigated by matter. Maybe we will be able to generate energy from those waves in the future, we have no idea yet but its definitely something worth looking into.

We need to accept that humans still have a very limited understanding of the universe and there is potential to make advances we dont undersfand yet.

Another example is the EM drive. With our current understanding of physical laws its supposed to be impossible however the tech seems promising none the less

We also dont understand dark energy or dark matter yet, but astrophysicists are convinced its out there due to how the galaxies are formed and rotate

We are still just basic creatures trying to figure out everything, to say we are reaching any kind of limit is silly. If you look back, humanity often thinks they are reach technology limits, yet today we are still making the greatest advancements to date.

We might not even be using the proper materials for our solar panels yet. Maybe attaching an amplifying lens to the panel increases the energy production 10 fold. We dont know until we research more, something dirty energy producers will spend big money to inhibit.

You sound like you "know just enough to be dangerous, but not enough to be useful." Just an old phrase I remember from school, got thrown at us a lot during our first couple of years in engineering. As for dark matter I believe that issue has been settled.
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...s-missing-matter-has-just-been-finally-found/

It's good that you've got an open mind and you're enthusiastic about this stuff, though I don't agree in the particular instance of solar power simply because of Thermodynamics. Something I remember when doing my intro to Quantum Mechanics (intro only, just the hydrogen atom stuff) was that every single time Thermodynamics predicted something it was proven by Quantum. No way around it... you can't get something for nothing. Phase changes require energy... try getting steam from ice without adding energy and see what happens. We'll see what happens in the future but in the mean time we can't use these "possibly new technologies" to solve our current power issues, so we should be looking at feasible methods to solve our current problems.

Edit : since you were talking about harvesting / using our star's energy you reminded of a book I read by Dr. Kaku and the types of possible civilizations in the universe. There's something called the Kardashev scale and it's a way of measuring how advance a civilization would need to be in order to do certain things.

-Type 1 civilization could harness and utilize all energy which is on or reaches their home planet... so we're talking about geo-thermal energy, tidal energy, tectonic movement energy, and a portion of the energy coming from their star.

-Type 2 civilization would be able to harness ALL of the power from the sun... kind of like a Dyson Sphere concept. A theoretical time jump from Type 1 to Type 2 is on the magnitude of thousands of years.

-Type 3 civilization can harness the energy from their galaxy... ie black holes, all planets, all stars, etc. Jump from Type 2 to Type 3 is on the order of hundreds of thousands of years.

Currently it's estimated that humanity is at a .7 and likely hundreds of years from making the jump to a Type 1 civilization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale
http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/this-mind-bending-scale-predicts-the-power-of-advanced-civilizations

Some pretty cool stuff to think about but even with amazing estimates we're still hundreds of years away from becoming technologically advanced enough to utilize most of the energy coming from our star. While something we should certainly strive to for the future it's not feasible as a current solution to our problems.