Social Trump Going After Academic Autonomy

[lowlife]

I almost always disagree with you man. But I want to say that some of what you're saying is true in my experience also. Had a good friend here in my neighborhood that has a PhD and teaches English in a semi ivy League college. She is on the left but she's more of a centrist and she said that she also had to censor her speech and avoid lots of different topics for fear of being outed or ostracized. She also spoke of the left police who would officially police everyone's speech and thought in that University and when I met her I was just praising her for having a PhD and working in academia because I have a deep admiration for education and scholars. But she kept sort of deflating my praise and so I finally asked her why and that's when she told me all of what I just told you.

She actually left academia because she was tired of a work environment where you couldn't have your own opinions without being castigated by the left for having them and labeled in some kind of negative. The left won't admit this happens but it happens every single day on this forum even.

I've shared this on here and it's one of the reasons. Some of the people on the left hate me because I dare to share my opinions out of lockstep with the left when I think the left is being stupid.

On the other hand, Trump is not going to do anything but weaponize this. He does want thought control. He does want fascism and he does want to push a fascistic agenda and so do the crazy Christian fundamentalist nationalists that he's associated with and they'll be far darker about it than the left ever was because the right is ideologically driven, whereas the left's censorship is more culturally driven.

So what I think is that people on the right are being duped by Trump as usual where he's pointing out a real problem on the left and then offering a false solution from his fascistic agenda on the right.

I feel like nearly 100% of the time that's the deal Trump is making with you guys. He's pointing out some real problems on the left only to dupe you and trick you into doing absolutely stupid and fascistic things on the right.

This looks to me a lot more like getting rid of the scholars so that you can dumb down the populace and control them better than it does anything else.

this is how I feel about it, well said. The "left" got completely out of hand with the censoring and, let's call it what it is, their attempt to control speech and behavior. You go too far in one direction and the rubber band snaps back, trump will learn that soon enough.

 

[Tatra]

Right, the left thinks there are no differences between individuals, social groups, cultures, economic classes, genders, and so on.

Which is why, of course, Marx didn't think such a thing as class struggle existed, or feminists do not believe gender and sex discrimination exist, or race activists do not believe differences based on race exist. Or postcolonial theories do not believe there is any difference between colonizer and colonized.

And of course, Diversity Equity and Inclusion divisions, being left winged creations, are actively denying that any differences exist between human beings. Their central claim is that Diversity is in fact a myth.

The level of stupidity in these forums is truly astonishing.

The left says "we're all equal". That's what they say. I'm simply quoting them. Are you telling me they never say that?

If leftists never lied they'd be mutes.

 

[SurferH2O]

I have a 22 Y/O son that just finished his AA at Orange Coast Community and has transferred to Long Beach State. He's one of the Gen Z super based fools and it's kind of fun to watch. I have to talk him down from being a lock step Righty often with examples in real life and historical events. That's right... I have to play the Centrist at home often, because I can't have him full blown MAGA and not considering that both sides can be full of shit.

I get why he's so mad at most of his professors. The Woke shit they have forced on him is ridiculous. I told him early from my own experience of having a Lefty Prof nearly fuck my world up, to shake his head, smile, tell them what they want to hear and get the grade.

Sadly, when I was in college, until my Senior year, we had vibrant and heated debates with professors and other students without fear or repercussions. I can image that today's college classes are just an echo chamber. I've figured out why Lefties / Liberals have such a hard time in debates with Conservatives. It's because so very few Lefties were ever properly challenged in education whereas the Conservatives were constantly challenged and had to learn to defend their positions far better.

I would guess the Lefty posters on this site are better at debating against a Conservative than most college graduates.

 

[krelianx]

The left says "we're all equal". That's what they say. I'm simply quoting them. Are you telling me they never say that?

If leftists never lied they'd be mutes.

I have a really, really hard time believing a functional adult would not be able to distinguish between:

Equality in the sense of the denial of real differences between individuals and groups.

And

Equality in the sense of the affirmation of the ideal of granting the same opportunities for different individuals and groups.

A really, really hard time...

 

[Limbo Pete]

I have a 22 Y/O son that just finished his AA at Orange Coast Community and has transferred to Long Beach State. He's one of the Gen Z super based fools and it's kind of fun to watch. I have to talk him down from being a lock step Righty often with examples in real life and historical events. That's right... I have to play the Centrist at home often, because I can't have him full blown MAGA and not considering that both sides can be full of shit.

I get why he's so mad at most of his professors. The Woke shit they have forced on him is ridiculous. I told him early from my own experience of having a Lefty Prof nearly fuck my world up, to shake his head, smile, tell them what they want to hear and get the grade.

Sadly, when I was in college, until my Senior year, we had vibrant and heated debates with professors and other students without fear or repercussions. I can image that today's college classes are just an echo chamber. I've figured out why Lefties / Liberals have such a hard time in debates with Conservatives. It's because so very few Lefties were ever properly challenged in education whereas the Conservatives were constantly challenged and had to learn to defend their positions far better.

I would guess the Lefty posters on this site are better at debating against a Conservative than most college graduates.

Your trouble in school wasn't caused by Leftist Teachers, but rather because you are an imbecile

 

[Tatra]

I have a really, really hard time believing a functional adult would not be able to distinguish between:

Equality in the sense of the denial of real differences between individuals and groups.

And

Equality in the sense of the affirmation of the ideal of granting the same opportunities for different individuals and groups.

A really, really hard time...

Well, the left never expands on what they mean when they say 'we're all equal'. Looks like a classic example of bait & switch which the left loves to do.

 

[krelianx]

Well, the left never expands on what they mean when they say 'we're all equal'. Looks like a classic example of bait & switch which the left loves to do.

They never expand on what they mean?

So Marx never explained what class struggle meant? So Wollestonecrsaft never explained what misogyny meant? Quijano never explained what colonialism and colonial difference meant?

Look man, just because you don't read anything and are going by your gut feelings about how people think and are it doesn't make it true.

Go read a fucking book or paper about any of the topics discussed here, and then maybe you'll have something intelligent to say.

 

[Tatra]

They never expand on what they mean?

So Marx never explained what class struggle meant? So Wollestonecrsaft never explained what misogyny meant? Quijano never explained what colonialism and colonial difference meant?

Look man, just because you don't read anything and are going by your gut feelings about how people think and are it doesn't make it true.

Go read a fucking book or paper about any of the topics discussed here, and then maybe you'll have something intelligent to say.

I'm simply quoting the left when they say "we're all equal". They never explain exactly what they mean by that. I remember interrogating one of them once and he said 'I believe in total equality' and I asked him what that meant and he said 'equality everywhere, for everyone', so I asked him do you think a street sweeper and a brain surgeon should be paid the same and he deflected and ran off, like they always do.

I can see you're a mental midget incapable of having a mature conversation though. Sad!

 

[krelianx]

I have a 22 Y/O son that just finished his AA at Orange Coast Community and has transferred to Long Beach State. He's one of the Gen Z super based fools and it's kind of fun to watch. I have to talk him down from being a lock step Righty often with examples in real life and historical events. That's right... I have to play the Centrist at home often, because I can't have him full blown MAGA and not considering that both sides can be full of shit.

I get why he's so mad at most of his professors. The Woke shit they have forced on him is ridiculous. I told him early from my own experience of having a Lefty Prof nearly fuck my world up, to shake his head, smile, tell them what they want to hear and get the grade.

Sadly, when I was in college, until my Senior year, we had vibrant and heated debates with professors and other students without fear or repercussions. I can image that today's college classes are just an echo chamber. I've figured out why Lefties / Liberals have such a hard time in debates with Conservatives. It's because so very few Lefties were ever properly challenged in education whereas the Conservatives were constantly challenged and had to learn to defend their positions far better.

I would guess the Lefty posters on this site are better at debating against a Conservative than most college graduates.

I think you are making a lot of assumptions about the academy based on very limited anecdotal evidence. There is plenty of lively debate and disagreements within the academy, not only between right and left, but within the left. Also, the idea that intellectual debate in the university is always or predominantly about things that must reflect political issues is silly. The majority of time in the classroom one discusses the topics at hand, and these are obviously subject dependent.

I work at the university, and have taught in several institutions in different departments, both inside and outside the U.S. I am also not exactly what I would call a "liberal progressive", let alone a democrat supporter in the U.S. Which is not to say I am a conservative, let alone a republican either.

There are biases and, yes, an allergy to conservatism among mostly the humanities and arts. There are both historical and circumstantial reasons for that. A huge part of left leaning intellectual culture has deep issues with Woke progressivism, myself included. Partially because of reasons that you mention: it disengages with conservative ideas in the effort to fight bigotry, and in doing so throws the baby with the bathwater, and unwittingly tips over into censorship practices that block intellectual debate.

Of course, just perusing at some of the answers in this forum should give you an idea of the extreme hostility and stupidity that passes for reasoned debate.

 

[krelianx]

I'm simply quoting the left when they say "we're all equal". They never explain exactly what they mean by that. I remember interrogating one of them once and he said 'I believe in total equality' and I asked him what that meant and he said 'equality everywhere, for everyone', so I asked him do you think a street sweeper and a brain surgeon should be paid the same and he deflected and ran off, like they always do.

I can see you're a mental midget incapable of having a mature conversation though. Sad!

So, you interrogated some random civilian who happens to lean or vote left, and you draw assumptions about the left as a whole, without actually having engaged with any of the ideas that are explicitly elaborated by leftist philosophers, economists, political theorists, sociologists, etc. Which by the way, has a very long history.

That's like saying I believe conservatives are flat Earthers because I heard Bryce Mitchel in an interview.

Again, stop being prideful of your ignorance. Read a book, and maybe you'll have actually something to contribute to the conservation.

 

[Tatra]

So, you interrogated some random civilian who happens to lean or vote left, and you draw assumptions about the left as a whole, without actually having engaged with any of the ideas that are explicitly elaborated by leftist philosophers, economists, political theorists, sociologists, etc. Which by the way, has a very long history.

That's like saying I believe conservatives are flat Earthers because I heard Bryce Mitchel in an interview.

Again, stop being prideful of your ignorance. Read a book, and maybe you'll have actually something to contribute to the conservation.

No you dummy, I picked one example because it's one of the very few times I got some kind of an answer out of one of them. The 'we're all equal' mantra which the left bases its entire identity on (go on, act like they don't LOL) means ALL people have equal ability. Which is why I found it funny when you used 'inbred' as an insult, implying inbred people are inferior. I don't know how you define yourself politically... leftist/progressive/liberal... whatever, but you're obviously a left-winger, so I just found it funny when a left-winger admits we aren't all equal. But you never answered my question: you know which demographic is the most inbred in the world, don't you?

 

[krelianx]

No you dummy, I picked one example because it's one of the very few times I got some kind of an answer out of one of them. The 'we're all equal' mantra which the left bases its entire identity on (go on, act like they don't LOL) means ALL people have equal ability. Which is why I found it funny when you used 'inbred' as an insult, implying inbred people are inferior. I don't know how you define yourself politically... leftist/progressive/liberal... whatever, but you're obviously a left-winger, so I just found it funny when a left-winger admits we aren't all equal. But you never answered my question: you know which demographic is the most inbred in the world, don't you?

And you actually believe that people if asked think that all people have identical abilities across the board? You actually think that the majority of people who identify as left wing think that human beings evince no differences in, say, perceptual capacities: that there is no difference in cognitive traits between someone who is blind and someone who is not? Or between someone who has alzheimer's and someone who does not? Or that differences in education, race, gender, do not reflect differences of opportunity that translate to differences in cognitive performance?

You actually think people are that stupid, but the truth is you are the one who has to create a caricature and strawman to argue against some cartoon version of what you think "the left" means.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Why is a left lining crack pot getting hundreds of millions, let alone billions like Harvard. To basically educate foreign students to hate out country and undermine our own citizens?

Uh, how about no

 

[shunyata]

I almost always disagree with you man. But I want to say that some of what you're saying is true in my experience also. Had a good friend here in my neighborhood that has a PhD and teaches English in a semi ivy League college. She is on the left but she's more of a centrist and she said that she also had to censor her speech and avoid lots of different topics for fear of being outed or ostracized. She also spoke of the left police who would officially police everyone's speech and thought in that University and when I met her I was just praising her for having a PhD and working in academia because I have a deep admiration for education and scholars. But she kept sort of deflating my praise and so I finally asked her why and that's when she told me all of what I just told you.

She actually left academia because she was tired of a work environment where you couldn't have your own opinions without being castigated by the left for having them and labeled in some kind of negative. The left won't admit this happens but it happens every single day on this forum even.

I've shared this on here and it's one of the reasons. Some of the people on the left hate me because I dare to share my opinions out of lockstep with the left when I think the left is being stupid.

On the other hand, Trump is not going to do anything but weaponize this. He does want thought control. He does want fascism and he does want to push a fascistic agenda and so do the crazy Christian fundamentalist nationalists that he's associated with and they'll be far darker about it than the left ever was because the right is ideologically driven, whereas the left's censorship is more culturally driven.

So what I think is that people on the right are being duped by Trump as usual where he's pointing out a real problem on the left and then offering a false solution from his fascistic agenda on the right.

I feel like nearly 100% of the time that's the deal Trump is making with you guys. He's pointing out some real problems on the left only to dupe you and trick you into doing absolutely stupid and fascistic things on the right.

This looks to me a lot more like getting rid of the scholars so that you can dumb down the populace and control them better than it does anything else.

That's how the most effective propaganda has always worked.

You point out real problems. Sure, maybe you exaggerate them but it starts with a kernel of truth. Then you get the audience going, get them upset, get them desperate for a solution. And you offer the bullshit policy you wanted them to embrace as the solution to their woes.

 

[tastaylvr]

So trump wants conservative dei?? Fking lol

All these mfkers show their true colours at some point

 

[Deleted member 577981]

That's how the most effective propaganda has always worked.

You point out real problems. Sure, maybe you exaggerate them but it starts with a kernel of truth. Then you get the audience going, get them upset, get them desperate for a solution. And you offer the bullshit policy you wanted them to embrace as the solution to their woes.

And more often than not that propagandist or that fascist or that strong man like we have with Trump could never have convinced anyone to listen had the side in power done their job and looked out for the people.

 

[nostradumbass]

Good, they can operate as a political organization, but they don't get federal funding to do it, and should lose their tax exemption and tax their $53 billion endowment accordingly instead of letting them have a tax free hedge fund and also funnel billions in taxpayer dollars to them if they continue to act as a political organization.

 

[SoSo]

I'm overjoyed to see DEI programs dismantled. It's a racist-based philosophy, and a scourge.

The "viewpoint diversity" stuff I don't care for even if I don't particularly pity academics in the humanities who have for far too long clearly built a political groupthink culture within their own ranks.

Agree. But this witch hunt for antisemitism (not supporting Israel in their "war" of sorts) is fucked.

 

[Stoic1]

Good, they can operate as a political organization, but they don't get federal funding to do it, and should lose their tax exemption and tax their $53 billion endowment accordingly instead of letting them have a tax free hedge fund and also funnel billions in taxpayer dollars to them if they continue to act as a political organization.

 

[Madmick]

Agree. But this witch hunt for antisemitism (not supporting Israel in their "war" of sorts) is fucked.

I'm fine with it. Because we saw what happened to campuses across the nation inflicted by those who oppose Israel. Can't have that.

FAFO AFAIK.