Social Trump Going After Academic Autonomy

[Snubnoze707]

Also, these "Ivy" league schools are now something like 30%-50% foreign students. Why is US tax payer money being used to subsidize other countries' education for their kids? And neglect US children?

Exactly, and for folks that decided to just go get a job and develop a career without going to college, where the hell is our benefit from our tax dollars? Why are my tax dollars going to a college that also extorts young adults out of a shit load of money that puts them into debt?

I say cut all this shit, and then cut that bullshit 22-24% annual income bracket the fuck down and let me keep my money.

College is a SCAM.

 

[Badr Hari]

Burn the books

 

[krelianx]

I'm overjoyed to see DEI programs dismantled. It's a racist-based philosophy, and a scourge.

The "viewpoint diversity" stuff I don't care for even if I don't particularly pity academics in the humanities who have for far too long clearly built a political groupthink culture within their own ranks.

I think you are probably unfamiliar with how these programs work. At CSUSB they mostly deal with helping foreign students and minorities access resources, find help when subject to abuse, and organize events to help faculty learn about how to work with people coming from diverse backgrounds. They also help connect students, who are often times fairly isolated, to other sectors of the university that can protect them from discrimination, bullying, and the like.

It's the same in UCLA, CSULB, and basically every other institution I have seen. I don't understand why you have this idea that they are racist. If anything they help fight racism on campus, and assist minorities that are oftentimes subject to alienation and abuse.

The situation in the humanities is sad. Less and less students sign to those programs because they don't translate to jobs. So they rely on mandatory curricular courses to stay afloat. And they offer what the majority of kids want these days: gender, colonialism, ecology, race. There's a lot of fantastic work and people involved here. This is not only a cultural shift today, but also a result of economic pressures.

It has affected me, for instance, since I don't work on these topics mostly. But of course the government is not trying to include people working on different things, just to force hires that support conservatism. This is not meritocracy, but as someone said affirmative action for conservatives.

There's a reason across the entire academy in all disciplines, in the world, the immense majority are left leaning or progressive. That is because scholars are usually the most educated and forward thinking members of society, most allergic to dogmatism. Which of course does not mean there are no ideological biases within it, as with the present day humanities in the anglophone Western academy.

 

[HereticBD]

Burn the books

We don't gotta burn the books, we just remove 'em.

 

[krelianx]

Of course, indoctrination goes deep.

We find many blindly celebrate "closing DEI" programs without ever having even talked to anyone who works in one or having any actual idea of what their daily work involves.

 

[SurferH2O]

It's pure projection at this point.

The executive branch of the government wants to "abolish DEI" but at the same time they're telling universities they need to hire token conservative administrators and scholars who were not able to land these positions based on their actual merits.


It's the opposite of meritocracy. It's affirmative action for underqualified conservatives.

Your post is utter Left Cult fantasy. They are not hired because they are Conservatives. We all know it.

One of my staff is also a Professor of Geology at a local California State University which I will not mention, so I don't ID her, but she kept her political leanings (Conservative) a secret, because she knew she'd never get the job. She continues to keep her views secret because she says, (1) political views have no place in hard sciences, and (2) she fears repercussions if they ever learned she voted for Trump. It should never be like that.

My best friend from college is a Professor of Cognitive Science formerly at UCLA, Rutgers, and now Vanderbilt. He's was raised on a commune for a few years as his father was a Berkeley Professor of the 1970's. He's a hardcore Left leaner / Flower Child, but a great guy and still a good friend. He's quite honest about the whole thing... he says he's only met a handful of Conservative Professors in his 30 years of being a Professor.

 

[krelianx]

Just for example, these are some of the programs and events that have been recently hosted by DEI at CSUSB.



These are some of the resources:

Resources | Diversity, Equity & Inclusion | CSUSB

www.csusb.edu

Of course, a bunch of inbred racist and homophone morons will applaud these resources being shut down from the university.

 

[Madmick]

I think you are probably unfamiliar with how these programs work. At CSUSB they mostly deal with helping foreign students and minorities access resources, find help when subject to abuse, and organize events to help faculty learn about how to work with people coming from diverse backgrounds.

LOL. Flush that shit down.

 

[krelianx]

Your post is utter Left Cult fantasy. They are not hired because they are Conservatives. We all know it.

One of my staff is also a Professor of Geology at a local California State University which I will not mention, so I don't ID her, but she kept her political leanings (Conservative) a secret, because she knew she'd never get the job. She continues to keep her views secret because she says, (1) political views have no place in hard sciences, and (2) she fears repercussions if they ever learned she voted for Trump. It should never be like that.

My best friend from college is a Professor of Cognitive Science formerly at UCLA, Rutgers, and now Vanderbilt. He's was raised on a commune for a few years as his father was a Berkeley Professor of the 1970's. He's a hardcore Left leaner / Flower Child, but a great guy and still a good friend. He's quite honest about the whole thing... he says he's only met a handful of Conservative Professors in his 30 years of being a Professor.

There are very few conservative professors in the university across the world. This is not because of ideological bias in hiring, but because throughout history and until this day it is progressivism that has encouraged free-thought, liberation from dogmatism, fought against bigotry, endorsed humanism as a philosophy, and promoted scientific liberty. It's the same in the scientific establishment, medical profession, and basically any field with intellectual capital. Which doesn't mean, of course, that a priori the left cannot be disgraceful or reactionary, or that conservatives cannot be intelligent and humanist.

The examples you mention do reflect a real problem, which is that conservatism has become unacceptably toxic in the minds of many within the university to the point of presenting threats to openness. Just a cursory look at the responses in this forum should provide a good reason why, however. It is accentuated today because of the extreme polarization. I agree it shouldn't be this way, and no faculty member or applicant should be threatened because they lean conservative, which is not to say anyone should be gleefully non-discriminated because of their views. Being pro-Hitler, Stalin, Polpot, Maduro, should not be a tolerable position, and I would be very concerned of anyone that thinks one should not discriminate against those who endorse racism and tyranny.

Sadly, the direction of the country and the current regime is bringing out the most aberrant and stupid form of conservatism we know. Just look at what some of the people in these forum say with prideful joy.

I myself got myself in quite a bit of trouble for discussing and showing points of deep agreement with branches of Neoreactionary thought, like Nick Land, and Curtis Yarvin. What the latter calls The Cathedral is a real phenomenon. I also have friends who are conservatives in the academy and share the same feelings.

But this is confusion, because what the government is doing through these measures is not de-ideologizing the university to make conservatism tolerable or to protect faculty and students that lean conservative. They are trying to brute force conservatism and suppress research or ideas that do not conform to it. Not to mention brute force closing and censoring agencies that protect and help minorities. It is only reinforcing the idea that the government is acting as an agency that promotes censorship and has racist motives.

I would be interested in hearing what your academic friends think about these 'demands'.

I should say that it is different, however, to be conservative than to be a racist, homophobe, etc. Just like there is a difference between being progressive or leftist and being a Stalinist. Under the mantle of 'tolerance' and 'diversity' one risks a kind of moral and epistemic relativism that makes overt racist, misogynist, ethnocentric, views something that ought to be represented and protected.

 

[Berserker13]

finger points to the accusers( who are guilty of what they are accusing)

 

[krelianx]

LOL. Flush that shit down.

You are usually a pretty intelligent and level headed person, which is why I chose to address and respond to you with some detail. But if that's how you are responding, I think this is going nowhere.

 

[Sinister]

They still do. Endowments are usually given for a specific purpose and can only be spent for that purpose, and over a period of time rather than immediately.

Why colleges like Harvard can't easily use endowments to replace federal funding

Endowments aren’t a simple replacement for government funding because of restrictions related to donor earmarking, legality and research priorities, experts say.

www.nbcnews.com

Dont believe anyone who shows venom towards "DEI" who doesnt include legacy admissions in that, and who also supports inequality in primary schooling that has existed for decades, and will be made worse by the increased privatization of education. Education access has never been "based on merit"...and suggesting that DEI initiatives, as they existed, were destructive to merit-based access is not only wrong, its just more grievance politics of the majority demographic.

This targeting of learning institutions is just an attack on oppositional thought, and the intermingling of people who might influence each other to be different than these d*ckheads desire. Nothing more.

You'll always hear "I dont care if a school has an entirely black or Asian student body (except remember they also dont like the idea of HBCU's) so long as they actually earned it with high test scores, etc." And yet hardly any of them have ever been, or even known a minority who qualified for a DEI program to get into say, an Ivy League school and the challenges they faced. They want you to assume the candidate is dumb and undeserving by default, and yet it's the program that's racist. Lol

 

[Sinister]

Your post is utter Left Cult fantasy. They are not hired because they are Conservatives. We all know it.

One of my staff is also a Professor of Geology at a local California State University which I will not mention, so I don't ID her, but she kept her political leanings (Conservative) a secret, because she knew she'd never get the job. She continues to keep her views secret because she says, (1) political views have no place in hard sciences, and (2) she fears repercussions if they ever learned she voted for Trump. It should never be like that.

My best friend from college is a Professor of Cognitive Science formerly at UCLA, Rutgers, and now Vanderbilt. He's was raised on a commune for a few years as his father was a Berkeley Professor of the 1970's. He's a hardcore Left leaner / Flower Child, but a great guy and still a good friend. He's quite honest about the whole thing... he says he's only met a handful of Conservative Professors in his 30 years of being a Professor.

Lol@this Right Cult persecution complex nonsense.

First of all there are PLENTY of University Educated conservatives, as there wouldn't be conservative judges, lawyers, Doctors, and business people without them. This idea that ALL of them had to hide their political affiliations is just plain horsesh*t. Plenty of far rignt talking heads do appearances at Colleges, and have plenty of conservative students attend their sh*t-shows. So that leaves maybe faculty, and even if we grant you that faculty are more left-leaning politically (which I'm not even sure can be substantiated), the idea is that it must be some stupid conspiracy to leftify all the kids the same way dopes think books can gayinate the kids, or that seeing a drag queen can transinate them.

It's all bullsh*t. If there are less conservatives in University Faculty the most likely reason is because they know they're not gonna became the latest wealthy oligarchy that way. And then there's also that many smart conservatives end up in the racket that is the Clergy.

 

[Madmick]

You are usually a pretty intelligent and level headed person, which is why I chose to address and respond to you with some detail. But if that's how you are responding, I think this is going nowhere.

If you think you're gonna con me into believing DEI programs are harmless, much less productive, yeah, this is going nowhere. They're racist filth, and they need to be choked out of existence.

 

[SurferH2O]

There are very few conservative professors in the university across the world. This is not because of ideological bias in hiring

You lost all credibility. I know a number of scholars that hide their Conservative leanings or that are Lefties that admit they don't hire Conservatives. You're full of crap or lying to yourself.

Study Finds Conservative Professors Are Justified in Fears of Discrimination by Ashley Thorne | NAS

www.nas.org

"37.5 percent of respondents said they were somewhat or very likely to “vote for liberal over conservative job candidate if they were equally qualified.”

Survey shocker: Liberal profs admit they’d discriminate against conservatives in hiring, advancement

It’s not every day that left-leaning academics admit that they would discriminate against a minority. But that was what they did in a peer-reviewed study of political diversity in the field of social psychology, which will be published in the September edition of the journal Perspectives on...

www.washingtontimes.com

They do it to students and faculty.

We Have Data: Universities Are Discriminating Against Conservatives

Universities are now in a feedback loop in which a political monoculture creates a hostile climate for conservatives, driving self-censorship and empowering cancel culture, which keeps conservatives out.

www.newsweek.com

You're living in a bubble.

 

[SurferH2O]

Lol@this Right Cult persecution complex nonsense.

First of all there are PLENTY of University Educated conservatives, as there wouldn't be conservative judges, lawyers, Doctors, and business people without them. This idea that ALL of them had to hide their political affiliations is just plain horsesh*t. Plenty of far rignt talking heads do appearances at Colleges, and have plenty of conservative students attend their sh*t-shows. So that leaves maybe faculty, and even if we grant you that faculty are more left-leaning politically (which I'm not even sure can be substantiated), the idea is that it must be some stupid conspiracy to leftify all the kids the same way dopes think books can gayinate the kids, or that seeing a drag queen can transinate them.

It's all bullsh*t. If there are less conservatives in University Faculty the most likely reason is because they know they're not gonna became the latest wealthy oligarchy that way. And then there's also that many smart conservatives end up in the racket that is the Clergy.

It's been confirmed in survey after survey. The Lefty profs admit in openly.

 

[krelianx]

You lost all credibility. I know a number of scholars that hide their Conservative leanings or that are Lefties that admit they don't hire Conservatives. You're full of crap or lying to yourself.

Study Finds Conservative Professors Are Justified in Fears of Discrimination by Ashley Thorne | NAS

www.nas.org

"37.5 percent of respondents said they were somewhat or very likely to “vote for liberal over conservative job candidate if they were equally qualified.”

Survey shocker: Liberal profs admit they’d discriminate against conservatives in hiring, advancement

It’s not every day that left-leaning academics admit that they would discriminate against a minority. But that was what they did in a peer-reviewed study of political diversity in the field of social psychology, which will be published in the September edition of the journal Perspectives on...

www.washingtontimes.com

They do it to students and faculty.

We Have Data: Universities Are Discriminating Against Conservatives

Universities are now in a feedback loop in which a political monoculture creates a hostile climate for conservatives, driving self-censorship and empowering cancel culture, which keeps conservatives out.

www.newsweek.com

You're living in a bubble.

I didn't say there was no discrimination against conservatives today, I said that the reason why the entirety of the academy in the world, across disciplines and historical periods, has leaned progressive (at least since the times of Humboldt) has to do with the affinity between progressive thought and the ideal of free intellectual life, non-dogmatism, and scientific liberty. Which has traditionally been suppressed by conservatism for religious and statist reasons, since the Rennaissance and throughout the modern period, across the Enlightenment, and until today.

I said, and acknowledged, there are deep allergies against current conservatism thought in the Anglophone academy in particular, and I said this is accentuated in recent years by the extreme polarization of the country, in addition to the larger historical factors that I mentioned. I said that conservative thought has become intolerable for many. I said this is a problem that needs to be fought, even if it is also true that this shouldn't be confused with accepting or tolerating tyranny, racism, or bigotry, either from right-winged ideology or left wing. Which is why I mentioned cases from both ends.

But this is not what these provisions by the government are doing, i.e. protecting conservatives in the name of equality of opportunity and meritocracy. They are trying to police the funding and hiring procedure across disciplines, irrespective of their work. We already saw policing in scientific literature concerning the use of specific concepts. Nothing is said, not one thing, about how to increase competitiveness in research agendas across disciplines, or to enhance meritocratic standards of education before and in the university. They simply want control over admissions and hirings to ideologically control the university composition, teaching and research agenda, and control freedom of views and association.

You are either choosing not to read properly or being intellectually dishonest.

 

[SurferH2O]

I didn't say there was no discrimination against conservatives today, I said that the reason why the entirety of the academy in the world, across disciplines and historical periods, has leaned progressive (at least since the times of Humboldt) has to do with the affinity between progressive thought and the ideal of free intellectual life, non-dogmatism, and scientific liberty.

I said, and acknowledged, there are deep allergies against current conservatism thought in the Anglophone academy in particular, and I said this is accentuated in recent years by the extreme polarization of the country. I said that conservative thought has become intolerable for many. I said this is a problem that needs to be fought.

But this is not what these provisions by the government are doing, i.e. protecting conservatives in the name of equality of opportunity and meritocracy.

You are either choosing not to read properly or being intellectually dishonest.

Conservatives are not well represented in higher education because the Leftists that run it discriminate based on ideology. The studies and admissions of the professors was very clear. You stated the exact opposite.

 

[Natural Order]

We don't gotta burn the books, we just remove 'em.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Your post is utter Left Cult fantasy. They are not hired because they are Conservatives. We all know it.

One of my staff is also a Professor of Geology at a local California State University which I will not mention, so I don't ID her, but she kept her political leanings (Conservative) a secret, because she knew she'd never get the job. She continues to keep her views secret because she says, (1) political views have no place in hard sciences, and (2) she fears repercussions if they ever learned she voted for Trump. It should never be like that.

My best friend from college is a Professor of Cognitive Science formerly at UCLA, Rutgers, and now Vanderbilt. He's was raised on a commune for a few years as his father was a Berkeley Professor of the 1970's. He's a hardcore Left leaner / Flower Child, but a great guy and still a good friend. He's quite honest about the whole thing... he says he's only met a handful of Conservative Professors in his 30 years of being a Professor.

I almost always disagree with you man. But I want to say that some of what you're saying is true in my experience also. Had a good friend here in my neighborhood that has a PhD and teaches English in a semi ivy League college. She is on the left but she's more of a centrist and she said that she also had to censor her speech and avoid lots of different topics for fear of being outed or ostracized. She also spoke of the left police who would officially police everyone's speech and thought in that University and when I met her I was just praising her for having a PhD and working in academia because I have a deep admiration for education and scholars. But she kept sort of deflating my praise and so I finally asked her why and that's when she told me all of what I just told you.

She actually left academia because she was tired of a work environment where you couldn't have your own opinions without being castigated by the left for having them and labeled in some kind of negative. The left won't admit this happens but it happens every single day on this forum even.

I've shared this on here and it's one of the reasons. Some of the people on the left hate me because I dare to share my opinions out of lockstep with the left when I think the left is being stupid.

On the other hand, Trump is not going to do anything but weaponize this. He does want thought control. He does want fascism and he does want to push a fascistic agenda and so do the crazy Christian fundamentalist nationalists that he's associated with and they'll be far darker about it than the left ever was because the right is ideologically driven, whereas the left's censorship is more culturally driven.

So what I think is that people on the right are being duped by Trump as usual where he's pointing out a real problem on the left and then offering a false solution from his fascistic agenda on the right.

I feel like nearly 100% of the time that's the deal Trump is making with you guys. He's pointing out some real problems on the left only to dupe you and trick you into doing absolutely stupid and fascistic things on the right.

This looks to me a lot more like getting rid of the scholars so that you can dumb down the populace and control them better than it does anything else.