TRUE knockout power:

Could you please explain in more details how this 'shoulder pop' thing work?

Watch the video in the first post of the thread, when Hamed hits the heavy bag, watch his shoulders.
 
There shouldn't be a need, I just checked it and it's still available on MegaUpload.
 
Yeah Daisukey's video is the one. And sometimes megaupload is shit, but when I checked it it worked. Eh well.

Also, King...earlier you mentioned that Hamed's balance was garbage. As I look at this highlight video, it almost looks like he's KO-ing some guys by falling into them as he punches.

Well, this is a bit of a conundrum. If you watch the times Hamed gets knocked down by Kevin Kelly, and the shots he takes from Barrera, it shows how shitty his balance really was. But only when he gets hit do you really see it. One punch can wobble him. However, when he's the one doing the attacking, his strong legs, strong abs, and beign used to that jack-in-the-box movement made for being able to deliver that wicked knockout punch (with both hands) from angles only earlier dreamed of. Sometimes he knocked guys out looking like he was falling AWAY from them, too.
 
King Kabuki said:
Watch the video in the first post of the thread, when Hamed hits the heavy bag, watch his shoulders.

Hmm, I still I'm not totally sure about what it's all about... can't see much in the video, due to the speed and his shirt covering the shoulders. The only thing that comes closes to what could be described as a shoulder pop, is a short clip that I saw of him doing shadow boxing (not in the highlight)... Can you describe in words what a shoulder pop is?

On a side note, I heard that Hamed used to use a rowing machine for his 'cardio' rather than doing road work, and that is said to have built his V-shape torso and helped increase his punching power.
 
anyone got clips of tyson hitting the bag?

i love the way he goes high-low-low-high it's so rapid
 
Hmm, I still I'm not totally sure about what it's all about... can't see much in the video, due to the speed and his shirt covering the shoulders. The only thing that comes closes to what could be described as a shoulder pop, is a short clip that I saw of him doing shadow boxing (not in the highlight)... Can you describe in words what a shoulder pop is?

On a side note, I heard that Hamed used to use a rowing machine for his 'cardio' rather than doing road work, and that is said to have built his V-shape torso and helped increase his punching power.

I severely doubt that about the rowing machine. While rowing is certainly a good exercise for shoulder-strengthening as well as cardio, I don't think it was the only source of his cardio, nor a main contributing factor to his punching power. If that were the case, there'd be more application of such things by others who fought within that weight-division, looking for comparable power to Hamed's, and to my knowledge there wasn't. Plus, once Hamed retired he got FAT. And I doubt he kept in-shape to fight at such light weights with simply rowing and Boxing exercises and plyometrics.

In terms of the shoulder-pop. What you're looking for is how RIGHT before the punch lands he pulls back his rear shoulder and shifts forward his lead shoulder of whichever side he's punching with. It's a very subtle movement, but it's there. It kind of looks like he's just doing it with his arms, pulling one back while shoving the other forward, but all the power is in the shoulders, not the arms. I do this when I throw my lead-hook. And it's allowed me to put more force + bodyweight into the punch as at first it was relatively sloppy.

Peregrine - All the highlight videos I've done are in this thread:

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=322915&highlight=Benny

There's one on Tyson, not much in the ways of him working the heavybag, just a couple of glimpses, but the boy did have QUICK hands.
 
Gmaniac said:
I think a more appropriate analogy that would better express King's view would be attempting to train a man with average running speed to run a 4.3 40yd. dash, or sub 10 sec 100meters. Sprinting, not unlike punching, is effectively a combination of explosiveness, power, strength, stability, accuracy, timing, and speed. Sprint speed also happens to be heavily reliant on fast twitch muscle fibers. However, no amount of weight training, plyometrics, resistance running, drills, exercizes, conditioning, etc. will replace genetics or natural talent.

Can you improve your sprint speed and times? Yes. However, the average guy could train optimally since the day he was capable of running 40 yards, and still not run anywhere near that fast. I don't care if you were the Strength shoe everyday-all day, you're not going to run like Maurice Green or jump like Spud Webb unless you're born with it (the ability, not the shoe). There are elements of genetics and body composition that seperate those capable of running that fast, or for the sake of this argument, punching that hard that are just not trainable.

Alright, this is part true, but there is something i have to point out. YOu have a good point about guys not being able to train for a 4.3 or sub 10 second time. Those are extremely elite running times, and just as elite as KO power by guys like Foreman, Tyson, and the Prince. But there are some really good programs, which are expensive as hell, that will get an average persons 40 time down in the upper 4.4's and 4.5's, if they take it long enough, even if they aren't that great of a natural athlete.

There is a football team about 45 minutes from my house, called the Southlake Carroll Dragons. They have lost one time in the last 4 years, have won state 2 times in a row, and also finished with the #1 ranking and national championship the last 2 years. Well, they sent 3 white wide receivers D1 this past season, and all of them are fast as a motherfucker. It is well known that blacks are, for the most part, faster and better athletes than whites, at least at skill positions on the football field. Be as PC as you want, and try to argue with it, but FOR THE MOST PART, its true. Well these kids from Southlake Carroll have enough money to have personal trainers, and get involved in sport specific programs. The one they do is called fast twitch, and it does just as the name implies, trains the fast twitch muscles. They guarantee something like .2 or .3 seconds off of your 40 time, and like 4-6 inches in vertical jump, and an increase in bench and just all around athletic ability and explosiveness. There is a very rich team in Dallas that is like this, and won the state championship, although not as dominant as Southlake Carroll. I have seen both of these teams play, and not only do they win because of superior coaching, the other teams are outclassed in terms of athletic ability, and this is in Texas 5A football where almost every team sends at least 2 guys D1. And some of the teams that they have beat in the playoffs or the championship, send like 6-7 of their seniors D1, not to mention that some of their juniors/sophomores starting will eventually get D1 scholarships when its time to graduate. But yet time and time again they get outclassed athletically by a team that is 95% white, which i think says a lot.

I don't know if you can do anything like this for boxing, because i don't know if there is a program like this that is able to train punching speed/power other than hard work in a gym. But i do know that if you have enough money, with 3-4 years of training in a program like this, you can make yourself a much better athlete for football, basketball, hockey, or other sportans, than what you could have with sprints, jogging, and a lot of hard work.

Once again, i'm not saying the average joe can turn himself into Barry Sanders or Terrell Owens. Just stating that an average person can reach levels of athletic ability that they never thought possible if they use a scientific program like this. And i don't want anybody to say its just an easy BS method, because i've seen what they do, and its hard as fuck.
 
This is the famous documentary "Little Prince, Big Fight" made by british television on Naseem's preparation for the Barrera fight! It's an hour long, but worth every minute of it!! I'm a huge Naz fan but by the end of the documentary even I wanted to see him lose...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hritbg

(lol at the sparring session, Naseem is all over the place!)
 
HungryTiger said:
This is the famous documentary "Little Prince, Big Fight" made by british television on Naseem's preparation for the Barrera fight! It's an hour long, but worth every minute of it!! I'm a huge Naz fan but by the end of the documentary even I wanted to see him lose...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hritbg

(lol at the sparring session, Naseem is all over the place!)

someone host this on rapidshare plz. its always busy :icon_sad:
 
Im not going to get into a knockout power discussion anymore, but I would just like to say that I was never a fan of Hameds......I dont like the hit and run away kind of style, and I dont like his attitude.
 
Im not going to get into a knockout power discussion anymore, but I would just like to say that I was never a fan of Hameds......I dont like the hit and run away kind of style, and I dont like his attitude.

Heh heh, nice Av. And your perspective is understandable bro, Hamed was the kind of fighter people either love or hate. Believe it or not I hate him. I hate him venomously. But his two-fisted KO power from ANY angle is indisputable. However, there was nothing more I wanted to see than Kevin Kelly having him staring at a pen-light with an icepack on his neck. And it ALMOST happened.

His style makes you want to see someone kick his teeth in. That's good for the Sport in the big-picture.
 
another power building exercise imho is

banded db bench with a twist
incline ones as well

you can find the bands at elitefts.com and other places. i prefer to wrap the bands around my upper back then loop them to each thumb as i grab a db in each hand and go at it. this is great for bulding STARTING STRENGTH. i use a weight that is about 60% of my normal workweight. focusing on the blast off from the bottom. the twist adds the shoulder much more but is more in line with a punch.
note weights used and periodization is highly important with this tool. i would use for 6sessions or less then rotate. also consider 1-3reps with near maximal weight OR 1-3reps with very light weight. they serve differing purposes, starting strength, vs linking strength gains to power.
 
i am also beginning to question whether moves such as chain or supported push ups and handstand pushups have great merit for developing ko power as well as static holds(isometric)
 
peregrine said:
another power building exercise imho is

banded db bench with a twist
incline ones as well

you can find the bands at elitefts.com and other places. i prefer to wrap the bands around my upper back then loop them to each thumb as i grab a db in each hand and go at it. this is great for bulding STARTING STRENGTH. i use a weight that is about 60% of my normal workweight. focusing on the blast off from the bottom. the twist adds the shoulder much more but is more in line with a punch.
note weights used and periodization is highly important with this tool. i would use for 6sessions or less then rotate. also consider 1-3reps with near maximal weight OR 1-3reps with very light weight. they serve differing purposes, starting strength, vs linking strength gains to power.
Maximal and ballistic lift combined.

those are some kick ass ideas.
 
i am also beginning to question whether moves such as chain or supported push ups and handstand pushups have great merit for developing ko power as well as static holds(isometric)

The way I use them is not to develope KO power.
 
I always thought that although Hamed had poor balance, he had a pretty strong chin. He took some hard shots but always got up.
 
ross enamait has a book "Punching with Power"
i tried it and believe me you can develop knockout punch with a correct set of exercises and workouts.
 
I always thought that although Hamed had poor balance, he had a pretty strong chin. He took some hard shots but always got up.

He had great recovery, that's not the same as a good chin. Aaron Pryor had a good chin, so did Marvin Hagler.
 
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