Transgenders/Transexuals in sports

[bad seed]

shouldnt the MRA crowd support this? This way, MTF's start dominating all the womens sports and show them that men are better at everything, including being female.

gonna be interesting when the feminists and mtf's butt heads.

http://www.ibtimes.com/terf-wars-radical-feminists-are-going-after-transgender-activists-why-1820652

 

[klnOmega]

shouldnt the MRA crowd support this? This way, MTF's start dominating all the womens sports and show them that men are better at everything, including being female.

gonna be interesting when the feminists and mtf's butt heads.

http://www.ibtimes.com/terf-wars-radical-feminists-are-going-after-transgender-activists-why-1820652

When one side dominates, progressives never see it as proof of difference. Instead, they will just change the rules until it is settled on something that we can do equally well, or they are better yet. They'll make sports like the Candyland board game, where it is 100% luck, so that no difference will exist.

Or just eliminate any competitiveness from sports. So both sides take turns scoring and all games are draws.

 

[bad seed]

Absolutely not. You play as the sex you were born as. End of story.

and for athletes like Caster Semenya who was born intersex?

I'd also bet that a lot of dominant female athletes are xxy, much like in the fashion industry.

 

[bad seed]

When one side dominates, progressives never see it as proof of difference. Instead, they will just change the rules until it is settled on something that we can do equally well, or they are better yet. They'll make sports like the Candyland board game, where it is 100% luck, so that no difference will exist.

Or just eliminate any competitiveness from sports. So both sides take turns scoring and all games are draws.

if ftm's begin taking over female sports, there will be a push back from feminists demanding fairness for XX born females. In the end, it will be them who ban transgenders from womens events.

 

[Medusas Weave]

Should they? No.

Are they? Yes.

Discrimination isn't always a bad thing.

Damn discrimination. Men not allowed to play in the WNBA. Women not allowed to play in the NFL.

Damn guys must be influenced by the stars and bars or some shit.

 

[TSO]

Women not allowed to play in the NFL.

.

This isn't a rule. There just has never been a woman that can play football at a level required to be in the NFL.

 

[IDL]

This isn't a rule. There just has never been a woman that can play football at a level required to be in the NFL.

Because of sexism

 

[TSO]

Because of sexism

Sexual dimorphism.

 

[Cayenne]

Tolerance is good but there's a reasonable limit. Women can't be expected to compete against women who have the skeleton, higher muscle mass and height advantage of a man. Sports competitions are a literal measure of the physical body, every tiny physical advantage can tilt the scale and this is an advantage on the same level as doping. Transgender are only 0.4% of the US population, at some point they need to accept that if they are going to transition they are going to have to accept some concessions.

It's amazing to me that the Olympics accept transsexuals, if I were a top-tier female athlete and some idiot male athlete who transitioned into a woman started taking all my rightfully earned medals away from me, I'd be pretty damn pissed.

 

[ripskater]

Tolerance is good but there's a reasonable limit. Women can't be expected to compete against women who have the skeleton, higher muscle mass and height advantage of a man. Sports competitions are a literal measure of the physical body, every tiny physical advantage can tilt the scale and this is an advantage on the same level as doping. Transgender are only 0.4% of the US population, at some point they need to accept that if they are going to transition they are going to have to accept some concessions.

It's amazing to me that the Olympics accept transsexuals, if I were a top-tier female athlete and some idiot male athlete who transitioned into a woman started taking all my rightfully earned medals away from me, I'd be pretty damn pissed.

good post.

 

[Quipling]

Letting a man with a man's strength hit a woman who has less bone density will have consequences.

African-american women have comparable bone density to white men, and they're allowed in combat sports. Bone density doesn't matter as much as you think.

And after several years of thorough hormone treatment, the levels of muscle mass and strength are typically comparable as well.

 

[IDL]

African-american women have comparable bone density to white men, and they're allowed in combat sports. Bone density doesn't matter as much as you think.

And after several years of thorough hormone treatment, the levels of muscle mass and strength are typically comparable as well.

If a man is transitioning into a woman, and at the same time intending on competing in professional sport, then he would probably go easy on the hormone therapy..

 

[TheComebackKid]

Rape imo

 

[Medusas Weave]

African-american women have comparable bone density to white men, and they're allowed in combat sports. Bone density doesn't matter as much as you think.

And after several years of thorough hormone treatment, the levels of muscle mass and strength are typically comparable as well.

Proof?

 

[livingdeadmoose]

African-american women have comparable bone density to white men, and they're allowed in combat sports. Bone density doesn't matter as much as you think.

And after several years of thorough hormone treatment, the levels of muscle mass and strength are typically comparable as well.

As far as your first paragraph goes, it's a crock of shit. Like the other poster said, do you have scientific validation of this?

As far as your second paragraphs goes, it's a crock of shit. If you've gone through puberty as a male, there are some things hormone treatment will never change.

 

[Quipling]

Proof?

As far as your first paragraph goes, it's a crock of shit. Like the other poster said, do you have scientific validation of this?

As far as your second paragraphs goes, it's a crock of shit. If you've gone through puberty as a male, there are some things hormone treatment will never change.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1863580/

You'll note that until the onset of osteoporosis, the bone density is comparable between white men and black women, with black men having significantly higher bone density.

If I was feeling generous, I'd expect you to admit that I've provided proof. However, what I expect you will do is try to argue that this is due to some problem with the methodology (it isn't; the racial differences in bone density are well documented and the results have been replicated under different methods) or argue that there are other factors in play, such as diet or lifestyle. In anticipation of this, I've provided several links that examine this and find that there is little evidence supporting "lifestyle" differences or the like.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/171/7/808.full

As expected, African Americans had significantly higher bone mineral density at all 4 sites independent of age, weight, body composition, estrogen use, and lifestyle factors

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.82.2.3732

We concluded that racial differences in bone mineral density are not accounted for by clinical or biochemical variables measured in early adulthood

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1392.long

In general, blacks have a greater bone mineral density and body protein content than do whites, resulting in a greater fat-free body density

http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Bone/Osteoporosis/bone_mass.asp

African American females tend to achieve higher peak bone mass than Caucasian females. These differences in bone density are seen even during childhood and adolescence

I suspect the honest respondent will admit that there exists scientific evidence for my claim, and that it is not "a crock of shit."

I'll tackle the other one later tonight, but I'd like to see you provide a similar level of evidence for your claim that muscle mass and strength aren't significantly changed by a hormone regimen to a degree sufficient to bring the treated individual into the normal variance for their assumed gender.

If a man is transitioning into a woman, and at the same time intending on competing in professional sport, then he would probably go easy on the hormone therapy..

This is assuming said person is being dishonest, or cares more about the sport than they do about their transition. Discovery that somebody has been skipping hormones - something that is usually tested on a regular basis - would result in a refusal to support their transition by (reputable) doctors.

 

[ripskater]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1863580/

You'll note that until the onset of osteoporosis, the bone density is comparable between white men and black women, with black men having significantly higher bone density.

If I was feeling generous, I'd expect you to admit that I've provided proof. However, what I expect you will do is try to argue that this is due to some problem with the methodology (it isn't; the racial differences in bone density are well documented and the results have been replicated under different methods) or argue that there are other factors in play, such as diet or lifestyle. In anticipation of this, I've provided several links that examine this and find that there is little evidence supporting "lifestyle" differences or the like.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/171/7/808.full



http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.82.2.3732


http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1392.long



http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Bone/Osteoporosis/bone_mass.asp


I suspect the honest respondent will admit that there exists scientific evidence for my claim, and that it is not "a crock of shit"

Thanks for the info. But I'm surprised nobody has called you a racist for posting this information. I did for saying that black athletes in general run faster and jump higher.

 

[Denter]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1863580/

You'll note that until the onset of osteoporosis, the bone density is comparable between white men and black women, with black men having significantly higher bone density.

If I was feeling generous, I'd expect you to admit that I've provided proof. However, what I expect you will do is try to argue that this is due to some problem with the methodology (it isn't; the racial differences in bone density are well documented and the results have been replicated under different methods) or argue that there are other factors in play, such as diet or lifestyle. In anticipation of this, I've provided several links that examine this and find that there is little evidence supporting "lifestyle" differences or the like.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/171/7/808.full



http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.82.2.3732


http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1392.long



http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Bone/Osteoporosis/bone_mass.asp


I suspect the honest respondent will admit that there exists scientific evidence for my claim, and that it is not "a crock of shit."

I'll tackle the other one later tonight, but I'd like to see you provide a similar level of evidence for your claim that muscle mass and strength aren't significantly changed by a hormone regimen to a degree sufficient to bring the treated individual into the normal variance for their assumed gender.



This is assuming said person is being dishonest, or cares more about the sport than they do about their transition. Discovery that somebody has been skipping hormones - something that is usually tested on a regular basis - would result in a refusal to support their transition by (reputable) doctors.

That's interesting, thanks for the link. I had no idea the bone density varied that much between the races.

As for the hormones, would there be an (artificial) hormone standard to compare a "transwoman" to a real woman to ensure comparable strength?

 

[livingdeadmoose]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1863580/

You'll note that until the onset of osteoporosis, the bone density is comparable between white men and black women, with black men having significantly higher bone density.

If I was feeling generous, I'd expect you to admit that I've provided proof. However, what I expect you will do is try to argue that this is due to some problem with the methodology (it isn't; the racial differences in bone density are well documented and the results have been replicated under different methods) or argue that there are other factors in play, such as diet or lifestyle. In anticipation of this, I've provided several links that examine this and find that there is little evidence supporting "lifestyle" differences or the like.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/171/7/808.full



http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.82.2.3732


http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1392.long



http://www.niams.nih.gov/Health_Info/Bone/Osteoporosis/bone_mass.asp


I suspect the honest respondent will admit that there exists scientific evidence for my claim, and that it is not "a crock of shit."

I'll tackle the other one later tonight, but I'd like to see you provide a similar level of evidence for your claim that muscle mass and strength aren't significantly changed by a hormone regimen to a degree sufficient to bring the treated individual into the normal variance for their assumed gender.



This is assuming said person is being dishonest, or cares more about the sport than they do about their transition. Discovery that somebody has been skipping hormones - something that is usually tested on a regular basis - would result in a refusal to support their transition by (reputable) doctors.

I don't have time to read this now, but still, you can't compare female athletes to make athletes, doesn't matter what sex or bone density. The differences are huge. That's why male and female sports have always been kept seperate.

 

[n...not crazy]

Depends on whether the person you ask has a daughter who competes in sports.