A more reasonable comparison would be me painting my face brown and putting on an Afro wig, pulling my underwear up out of my pants and then wondering why black guys punch me in the mouth when I call them my nig*az.
Someone can change their hair color, eye color, get height implants, knee reductions, weight reduction, fake muscles, fake tits, lip fillers, hair extensions, hair dye, change their race (MJackson), change their name, etc but we are gonna die on a gender hill?
I play the powerball bro.
If we are judging mental illness by being delusional, I'm definitely fuckin mentally ill, along with like 95% of America lol.
A more reasonable comparison would be me painting my face brown and putting on an Afro wig, pulling my underwear up out of my pants and then wondering why black guys punch me in the mouth when I call them my nig*az.
23andMe lets tons of Americans get away with that nowadays because they are 0.24% Eastern Kenyan.
Joking aside, I wouldn't hate your comparison but there are obviously certain deeper racial insults implied with the N word and black face that make up the bulk of the offensiveness in your example.
But if someone was in "good faith" trying to be black? I think it happens lol.
I especially like this debate, because the anti-LGBT positions are so foreign to me. Like, forget the morality of it, it just feels like an intellectually bad take in my mind, no offense. So I like hearing opposing sides /shrug.
23andMe lets tons of Americans get away with that nowadays because they are 0.24% Eastern Kenyan.
Joking aside, I wouldn't hate your comparison but there are obviously certain deeper racial insults implied with the N word and black face that make up the bulk of the offensiveness in your example.
But if someone was in "good faith" trying to be black? I think it happens lol.
Someone can change their hair color, eye color, get height implants, knee reductions, weight reduction, fake muscles, fake tits, lip fillers, hair extensions, hair dye, change their race (MJackson), change their name, etc but we are gonna die on a gender hill?
I play the powerball bro.
If we are judging mental illness by being delusional, I'm definitely fuckin mentally ill, along with like 95% of America lol.
I'd like to ask because earlier you made a comment about Ali's religion being bullshit but that you'd still call him by his preferred name just out of respect. So it is the same thing with trans people? Do you also see their transition as being bullshit meaning an trans woman is not really a woman, trans man is not really a man etc? But you still refer to them as what they want just out of respect? Or how does it work for you?
I'd like to ask because earlier you made a comment about Ali's religion being bullshit but that you'd still call him by his preferred name just out of respect. So it is the same thing with trans people? Do you also see their transition as being bullshit meaning an trans woman is not really a woman, trans man is not really a man etc? But you still refer to them as what they want just out of respect? Or how does it work for you?
I personally think splitting definitions of gender and biological sex makes a lot of sense. But I also understand that the crux of the opposing viewpoint is based upon the belief they are the same and immutable, so let’s just steel man that perspective for a minute.
I think arguing the science that chromosomes don’t matter and that because 0.001% of the population is born with disambiguous genitalia means there are 96 different sexes is retarded. I equate these people to Noah’s Ark believers.
The reality is that 99% of trans cases are people just wanting to change their expression of gender, not the doctor making some decision at birth to handle a genetic mutation.
But I also believe the vast majority of trans folks that I’ve debated don’t argue that the science is in their favor, but rather they just want to live their life this way because it makes them happy. To me, that’s like someone believing in religion with an understanding the Bible isn’t perfect, but it brings them peace and happiness.
I personally think splitting definitions of gender and biological sex makes a lot of sense. But I also understand that the crux of the opposing viewpoint is based upon the belief they are the same and immutable, so let’s just steel man that perspective for a minute.
I think arguing the science that chromosomes don’t matter and that because 0.001% of the population is born with disambiguous genitalia means there are 96 different sexes is retarded. I equate these people to Noah’s Ark believers.
The reality is that 99% of trans cases are people just wanting to change their expression of gender, not the doctor making some decision at birth to handle a genetic mutation.
But I also believe the vast majority of trans folks that I’ve debated don’t argue that the science is in their favor, but rather they just want to live their life this way because it makes them happy. To me, that’s like someone believing in religion with an understanding the Bible isn’t perfect, but it brings them peace and happiness.
You realize that that's not enough according to many alphabet people on the left right? They want you to literally see and view them as actual women or men, that's what they are pushing for. For their to be no distinction between trans women and actual women, trans men and actual men etc. Even just calling them by their preferred pronouns is not enough if inside you don't actually believe it. So when you say that all this stuff has no negative consequences, take all that into consideration
You realize that that's not enough according to many alphabet people on the left right? They want you to literally see and view them as actual women or men, that's what they are pushing for. For their to be no distinction between trans women and actual women, trans men and actual men etc. Even just calling them by their preferred pronouns is not enough if inside you don't actually believe it. So when you say that all this stuff has no negative consequences, take all that into consideration
I definitely believe there are people like that just as I believe there are extremist people who believe that government should be require the 10 commandments be taught in every classroom or that there are extremists that think Sharia Law should be implemented in heavy Muslim communities like Minneapolis.
But certainly it wouldn’t make sense to shit on Joe Christian who is just minding his own business and just trying to find happiness in his life because Lauren Boebert or whoever is trying to rile up her constituents.
23andMe lets tons of Americans get away with that nowadays because they are 0.24% Eastern Kenyan.
Joking aside, I wouldn't hate your comparison but there are obviously certain deeper racial insults implied with the N word and black face that make up the bulk of the offensiveness in your example.
But if someone was in "good faith" trying to be black? I think it happens lol.
You aren't in danger like women are in that scenario. The entire reason why we have men and women's bathrooms is specifically to keep men away from women.
You aren't in danger like women are in that scenario. The entire reason why we have men and women's bathrooms is specifically to keep men away from women.
So, with regards to my earlier scenario - how do you plan on enforcing bio sex bathrooms?
It's not really a moral issue, it doesn't seem like a real solution to me.
If the rapist is going to respect signs, why not just put a sign that says "no raping" on the door?
Which I believe to be clearly better than the alternative.
The idea is that "hey, Joe Rapist can just put on a dress and walk into the women's restroom! We need to protect the women!"
But the alternative is that Joe Rapist will just walk the fuck right into the women's restroom. And when I say "Hey! Stop motherfucker! You can't go in there!", Joe Rapist won't have to pretend to be a woman - He'll just pretend to be trans! "It's cool bro, I'm trans! I got a vagina, just tons of hormones!"
So, unless the gameplan is to check their vaginas or force everyone to carry ID, keep a cop at every public restroom in America, ban transmen from using public restrooms altogether, and still have the police called every 3 minutes, that position doesn't seem to make any sense to me.
Your examples and analogies on this topic are just incredibly bad. It's like talking to a teenager who has spent about 3 seconds thinking about a subject and thinks they're the subject matter expert.
We didn't need to enforce anything when it came to bio sex bathrooms because people respected the entire point of them. The only time men would enter a woman's bathroom would be in case of an emergency, to clean it, maybe if they had a small child or if they were in there looking for trouble.
Men didn't just wander into women's restrooms and changing spaces because they were masquerading as women. If they tried that in the past, they could be kicked out for being creeps. If you try kicking them out now, you'll get fired and turned into a pariah. Women have no choice but to just deal with the added danger now. All for what? To ensure some mentally ill/confused people don't get their feelings hurt? The feelings of a small minority do not trump the feelings of nearly 50% of the population.
Your examples and analogies on this topic are just incredibly bad. It's like talking to a teenager who has spent about 3 seconds thinking about a subject and thinks they're the subject matter expert.
The only time men would enter a woman's bathroom would be in case of an emergency, to clean it, maybe if they had a small child or if they were in there looking for trouble.
Even if we pretend trans people haven't existed for years and years without this issue, now we are simply adding "to take a shit by themselves respectfully" to the list. The people "looking for trouble" are still the same demographic.
Furthermore, I simply fundamentally disagree that this is some massive increase in danger, to the point that we should ostracize and shouldn't allow like 1.5m people to shit in public bathrooms, given that the studies seem to suggest that it leads to no increase in rate of incidents. This is supported, in my mind, by the few anecdotal cases I hear which always seem to be some republican dude trying to make a protesting point.
For instance, a 2018 study published in the journal "Sexuality Research and Social Policy" analyzed data from cities and states that had passed anti-discrimination laws allowing trans people to use bathrooms matching their gender identity. The study found no increase in criminal incidents as a result of these laws. Similarly, a 2019 study from the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law reported no link between trans-inclusive bathroom policies and incidents of crimes in public restrooms.
But honestly, if you are getting frustrated that I share a different viewpoint (in the politics forum), I would rather just respectfully agree to disagree than keep you stuck talking to a teenager, homie.
Even if we pretend trans people haven't existed for years and years without this issue, now we are simply adding "to take a shit by themselves respectfully" to the list. The people "looking for trouble" are still the same demographic.
Trans people have always existed but they never demanded to be put in women's prisons, play in women's sports and demand every person around them change the way they speak.
Furthermore, I simply fundamentally disagree that this is some massive increase in danger, to the point that we should ostracize and shouldn't allow like 1.5m people to shit in public bathrooms, given that the studies seem to suggest that it leads to no increase in rate of incidents. This is supported, in my mind, by the few anecdotal cases I hear which always seem to be some republican dude trying to make a protesting point.
For instance, a 2018 study published in the journal "Sexuality Research and Social Policy" analyzed data from cities and states that had passed anti-discrimination laws allowing trans people to use bathrooms matching their gender identity. The study found no increase in criminal incidents as a result of these laws. Similarly, a 2019 study from the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law reported no link between trans-inclusive bathroom policies and incidents of crimes in public restrooms.
Trans people have always existed but they never demanded to be put in women's prisons, play in women's sports and demand every person around them change the way they speak.
I think you are correct on sports (I mentioned way earlier in thread) and I think the speech thing is overdramatized, but the prisons topic is interesting.
I haven't put enough thought into that situation tbh. Part of me instinctually thinks "whatever is less rate of violence" but that also opens up abuse, but of course people also abuse religious services with questionable faith, so idk tbh.
BOP decision feels like what it would end up being policy-wise, but I have to be honest that I'm not 100% sure how I feel here.
But there are always shades of grey and the non-binaries will intentionally blur lines lol.
And are we really thinking a guy is going to go through the trouble of getting dressed up to rape someone, but won't put the effort in to shave lol? The hypothetical feels so niche lol.
But regardless, I def agree with you in practice. I just don't see how it can realistically be implemented when it comes to public policy.
I hope this stuff changes the way they setup toilets. American toilets have giant ass gaps for some reason. Just have individual stalls and nobody can see inside.
And the part you are referencing isn't referring to being send to jail for refusing to use pronouns, it's referring to going to jail for refusing to pay the fines or non-monetary remedy that the court orders if you are convicted of harassment or discrimination lol.
Violence/Genocide: Do not condone violence or genocide on a person or group of people. You are free to attack a person or groups ideas but you are crossing the line when calling for violence. This will be heavily enforced in threads with breaking news involving victims.
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