Social Transgender Megathread Vol. 2

[GearSolidMetal]

It is really good to call attention to this problem.

The problem is Shapiro and his company, Daily Wire, are practically the only ones putting a HUGE microscope on this problem.

Fox News, 3 months ago, even aired a Pro-Child-Transition segment so everyone know knows what direction the channel's producers want to take on this subject.

So perhaps changing your opinion on Shapiro may be warranted.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

The problem is Shapiro and his company, Daily Wire, are practically the only ones putting a HUGE microscope on this problem.

Fox News, 3 months ago, even aired a Pro-Child-Transition segment so everyone know knows what direction the channel's producers want to take on this subject.

So perhaps changing your opinion on Shapiro may be warranted.

a broken clock is right twice a day.... shapiro is a terrible person and i wont and dont turn to him for insight into humanities problems. in fact i bet if i watched his segment on these issues i would be revolted but this issue SHOULD be focused on and it is a blind spot of the left not to.

the news sources i turn to also PROMOTE porn as a good of society. they are absolute fools with no wisdom. neither side is without its blind spots.

 

[Zazen]

I agree, we need to stop hospitals from charging these outrageous prices for medical care.

Glad the right is finally coming around to supporting universal healthcare.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

I agree, we need to stop hospitals from charging these outrageous prices for medical care.

Glad the right is finally coming around to supporting universal healthcare.

We wish.

 

[nostradumbass]

Dorks who "aren't really good at anything" would be shown love and acceptance in a society that was not deeply sinful. Love and acceptance don't have any requirement for being enabling but shame and ridicule are inherently shaming and limiting.


It is the lack of wisdom in a deeply sinful society that is the root of all of these problems. In a wise compassionate society any of this that is a dissorder would not ever get to the point it is

Well that's the problem. Kids don't want to just be a normal kid who fits in with other kids, they want to be important or stand out or be some tik tok star, but there's nothing exceptional that would make them stand out from other kids, and if they don't have any exceptional talents or traits, they resort to some bizarre character or sexual identity to get attention.

Trying to make their sexuality the thing that stands out and gets them attention is very often a source of profound regret later. It's incredibly common for porn stars to lament debasing themselves for quick money and short term validation from sleazy men, and both male and female porn stars regret it later because it was at the cost of being able to sustain actual relationships. This problem has gotten even worse with only fans, and those do a fraction of the damage done that sterilizing yourself and chopping off your genitals to stand out do.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Well that's the problem. Kids don't want to just be a normal kid who fits in with other kids, they want to be important or stand out or be some tik tok star, but there's nothing exceptional that would make them stand out from other kids, and if they don't have any exceptional talents or traits, they resort to some bizarre character or sexual identity to get attention.

Trying to make their sexuality the thing that stands out and gets them attention is very often a source of profound regret later. It's incredibly common for porn stars to lament debasing themselves for quick money and short term validation from sleazy men, and both male and female porn stars regret it later because it was at the cost of being able to sustain actual relationships. This problem has gotten even worse with only fans, and those do a fraction of the damage done that sterilizing yourself and chopping off your genitals to stand out do.

You missed the entire point and failed to address it in any way. Should I assume that was intentional or is it just an honest mistake?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

the news sources i turn to also PROMOTE porn as a good of society. they are absolute fools with no wisdom. neither side is without its blind spots.

Would Matt Walsh be an acceptable alternative?

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Would Matt Walsh be an acceptable alternative?

Personally as a Christian I need to hear a theologian addressing it in a nuanced and compassionate way unconnected to any political ideology.

But really I don't need anyone to help me think deeply about this issue and have not heard anyone on any side speak about it in a relevant way who is coming from a political perspective.


The issue is very nuanced and I have found that political ideology pollutes the whole issue irreversibly.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Personally as a Christian I need to hear a theologian addressing it in a nuanced and compassionate way unconnected to any political ideology.

But really I don't need anyone to help me think deeply about this issue and have not heard anyone on any side speak about it in a relevant way who is coming from a political perspective.


The issue is very nuanced and I have found that political ideology pollutes the whole issue irreversibly.

The problem with that is everyone has an opinion on politics and if they actually say it, then they're 'political.'

If you want a religous perspective on this, the trans-movement is completely sacrilegious because the acts they promote is basically saying 'God Makes Mistakes.'

 

[Deleted member 577981]

The problem with that is everyone has an opinion on politics and if they actually say it, then they're 'political.'

If you want a religous perspective on this, the trans-movement is completely sacrilegious because the acts they promote is basically saying 'God Makes Mistakes.'

yeah.... that is not the level of discourse i have been privy to on this subject and even seems like a strawman of real discussion honestly. im sure you dont mean it that way but compared to an intelligent loving discussion on the subject the summary you presented doesnt sound so good honestly.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

yeah.... that is not the level of discourse i have been privy to on this subject and even seems like a strawman of real discussion honestly. im sure you dont mean it that way but compared to an intelligent loving discussion on the subject the summary you presented doesnt sound so good honestly.

Ok, I'll take the bait.

What 'intelligent loving discussion on the subject' have you heard honestly?

Because I'm very interested in how child genital mutilation & sterilization can be viewed religiously as a good thing.

 

[nostradumbass]

Your missed the entire point and failed to address it in any way. Should I assume that was intentional or is it just an honest mistake?

Your post was incredibly vague.

Yeah, I don't think anybody can deny that our society is comically sinful. The people being shamed aren't the kids being brainwashed into mutilating themselves, it's the adults trying to talk them into it. Nearly every thread about "transgender kids" is the posters on the right correctly pointing out which parent convinced the kid.

I agree, we need to stop hospitals from charging these outrageous prices for medical care.

Glad the right is finally coming around to supporting universal healthcare.

Yes, there's no better sales pitch for doubling everyone's taxes than saying you want their money to sterilize and mutilate children.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Ok, I'll take the bait.

What 'intelligent loving discussion on the subject' have you heard honestly?

Because I'm very interested in how child genital mutilation & sterilization can be viewed religiously as a good thing.

sorry. i did not mean to say ive heard it presented as a good thing. i have not. but a sympathetic view is possible among generous people. i did not mean to say i have heard people support it outright. sorry if it sounded like bait also man.


you said that believing in this phenomenon is tantamount to believing god has made a mistake. ill give two theologically defensible alternatives to this take for a sincere and orthodox christian.

1- the world is disordered by sin and that not only effects a person psychology... it can and does effect physiology also. the disorder could be that the person really feels themselves to be in the wrong body even though it is not true and that they may feel better after a transition even though ultimately it is not gods will for them to do so.

this physiological disorder can be seen as a result of the disorder of sin warping a persons internal experience leading to body dysphoria. this disorder and sin does not have to be personal.... it could be the result of the sinfulness of humanity rather than the individual.

2-another take which is an extension of orthodox theology having to do with why male and female sexes exist in the first place. the notion is that the fall from grace happened before we entered into physical existence. from this perspective the wholeness that one experiences when fully reunited with god through salvation when it is fully embraced transcends male and female.... unites the two halves into a fullness and wholeness. we certainly see some evidence of this in the lives of mystics who are developed into way more complete and less rigidly defined attributes of male and female.

the entire lgbtq movement can be seen from this perspective as a (possibly misguided and misinterpreted) beginning of movement by an entire generation away from rigid divisions between male and female while trying, in a not fully formed or accurate way, to blend the two divisions.

 

[HereticBD]

yeah.... that is not the level of discourse i have been privy to on this subject and even seems like a strawman of real discussion honestly. im sure you dont mean it that way but compared to an intelligent loving discussion on the subject the summary you presented doesnt sound so good honestly.

What is the "intelligent and loving" discussion to be had, that will cross all barriers?

You for example, are totally against all this trans/gay, stuff, correct? You view them as "sinners" at best, from what I can gather. How is that "intelligent and loving" discussion to the people arguing the opposite?

 

[Deleted member 577981]

What is the "intelligent and loving" discussion to be had, that will cross all barriers?

You for example, are totally against all this trans/gay, stuff, correct? You view them as "sinners" at best, from what I can gather. How is that "intelligent and loving" discussion to the people arguing the opposite?

read my post above for a couple of examples ive been exposed to. its not everything ive heard but gives a good foundation of what im talking about.


post 154.

 

[HereticBD]

read my post above for a couple of examples ive been exposed to. its not everything ive heard but gives a good foundation of what im talking about.


post 154.

I think that most would view that as a whole lot of excuses to justify your beliefs, in an attempt to not come off as a bigot. You can dress it up all you want, but at the end of the day, you believe that something is "wrong" with these people, through the lens of religion.

How do you think those explanations would go in a public forum that disagreed with you? You'd be right at home at CPAC with those opinions, but you don't want to own it for some reason. You want to give the religious right talking points on this issue, while maintaining some kind distance at the same time. It doesn't work that way. At the end of the day, you're saying that these people are flawed and not normal, and they think you're a bigot for thinking so. You can't dance around that.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

I think that most would view that as a whole lot of excuses to justify your beliefs, in an attempt to not come off as a bigot. You can dress it up all you want, but at the end of the day, you believe that something is "wrong" with these people, through the lens of religion.

How do you think those explanations would go in a public forum that disagreed with you? You'd be right at home at CPAC with those opinions, but you don't want to own it for some reason. You want to give the religious right talking points on this issue, while maintaining some kind distance at the same time. It doesn't work that way. At the end of the day, you're saying that these people are flawed and not normal, and they think you're a bigot for thinking so. You can't dance around that.

im not a part of the religious right. in fact i see them as a BIG part of the problem on lots of issues and even complicit in this problem due to a lack of wisdom and spiritual maturity.

i cant address how people are going to see this, nor can i address the relative maturity of any one person on the internet who would read it.

i never claimed that any of these positions would cross all barriers. what i said was i prefer people who do not include political ideology or political actions in their discussions on this topic at all as i think it muddies the discussion. one could for example think the most generous position i posted (there are even more generous ones i did not list) and still think the right is cruel and off base in the way they are handling it or think there is no reason to try to remedy it politically in any way at all.

to your position that i am saying these people are flawed.... well that is only half the truth and does not evaluate accurately the last position i wrote of because those people would be advanced spiritually. the last portion i wrote about would put these people on the front lines of spiritual evolution... moving towards a more complete humanity and making the kinds of mistakes that only someone advanced enough to have these tendencies could and who was experimenting with a new way of being. this is mostly my position btw but i dont hold it rigidly.

and keep in mind... a generous person would not exaggerate the flaws in these people anyway (as i think the right wing Christians do greatly) and may well evaluate those flaws as being less egregious than ones own. i know plenty of people coming from this mentality btw.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

sorry. i did not mean to say ive heard it presented as a good thing. i have not. but a sympathetic view is possible among generous people. i did not mean to say i have heard people support it outright. sorry if it sounded like bait also man.

Its all good.

1- the world is disordered by sin and that not only effects a person psychology... it can and does effect physiology also. the disorder could be that the person really feels themselves to be in the wrong body even though it is not true and that they may feel better after a transition even though ultimately it is not gods will for them to do so.

You're correct in calling it a 'disorder.' Because it is a mental issue, and no psychologist entertains the delusions of one of their disordered patients.

Do you think it'd be God's will for his followers to willingly destroy their ability to procreate? There's many verses of the bible that instruct God's people to marry and have families.

this physiological disorder can be seen as a result of the disorder of sin warping a persons internal experience leading to body dysphoria. this disorder and sin does not have to be personal.... it could be the result of the sinfulness of humanity rather than the individual.

Sinfullness of humanity.... taught in public school, tic-tok, YouTube, and other social media apps. And possibly being indoctrinated by their own parents at an early age.

That's how kids are learning about this.

This isn't 'sin,' its hypnosis.

2-another take which is an extension of orthodox theology having to do with why male and female sexes exist in the first place. the notion is that the fall from grace happened before we entered into physical existence. from this perspective the wholeness that one experiences when fully reunited with god through salvation when it is fully embraces and transcends male and female.... unites the two halves into a fullness and wholeness. we certainly see some evidence of this in the lives of mystics who are developed into way more complete and less rigidly defined attributes of male and female

Um okay... can you point to another species of mammals on the planet?

And what 'mystics' are these?

Because God created man & woman, in humanity. What would the purpose of a 'third gender' be, to God, that he did not create?

the entire lgbtq movement can be seen from this perspective as a (possibly misguided and misinterpreted) beginning of movement by an entire generation away from rigid divisions between male and female while trying, in a not fully formed or accurate way, to blend the two divisions.

Okay... has anyone of the LGBTQ movement said this, or is this just said as a positive spin on it.

Because biblically very little is said about gender-transition, but it says ALOT about homosexuality, and none of it is good.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Its all good.



You're correct in calling it a 'disorder.' Because it is a mental issue, and no psychologist entertains the delusions of one of their disordered patients.

Do you think it'd be God's will for his followers to willingly destroy their ability to procreate? There's many verses of the bible that instruct God's people to marry and have families.



Sinfullness of humanity.... taught in public school, tic-tok, YouTube, and other social media apps. And possibly being indoctrinated by their own parents at an early age.

That's how kids are learning about this.

This isn't 'sin,' its hypnosis.



Um okay... can you point to another species of mammals on the planet?

And what 'mystics' are these?

Because God created man & woman, in humanity. What would the purpose of a 'third gender' be, to God, that he did not create?


Okay... has anyone of the LGBTQ movement said this, or is this just said as a positive spin on it.

Because biblically very little is said about gender-transition, but it says ALOT about homosexuality, and none of it is good.

the bible ALSO recommends celibacy as a permanent state... truth is there is more than one sacred way to live promoted in the bible.

i agree there is a social contagion element to this. i am also personally convinced that there is an element of social contagion to some homosexuality and i use greece and rome to demonstrate this argument often.

dont know what you mean about another mammal.

when you say god created man and woman you are assuming a fall from grace post creation. i am not saying that is WRONG but there are alternatives within orthodox Christianity. remember nobody EVER said the bible is the ONLY source of wisdom until luther which is very recent. many orthodox theologians do NOT take genesis as a literal account (it cant be anyway and is absurd to believe so) so that means the fall from grace could have happened pre fall from grace and the division into male and female supported by god and enabled by god was only meant to be a temporary state due to sin.

all mystics male or female are brought to a place where the feminine and masculine tendencies are FULLY developed. men must become profoundly soft and receptive without losing strength and women must become strong without losing softness. i personalty hear this element of spiritual development spoken of OFTEN. i could write ten pages on this alone frankly.

 

[HereticBD]

im not a part of the religious right.

That's nice, but you do give religious right talking points on this issue, the moment you say that you believe that something is "wrong" with these people. That's just the way it is.

i never claimed that any of these positions would cross all barriers. what i said was i prefer people who do not include political ideology or political actions in their discussions on this topic at all as i think it muddies the discussion.

As opposed to...religion? Really?

one could for example think the most generous position i posted (there are even more generous ones i did not list) and still think the right is cruel and off base in the way they are handling it or think there is no reason to try to remedy it politically in any way at all.

Your positions aren't "generous" though. Just because you're not saying "Throw them all in hole, so they can burn in Hell", doesn't make your position a whole lot more enlightened or "generous", because at the end of the day, you are saying they aren't right as human beings.

to your position that i am saying these people are flawed.... well that is only half the truth and does not evaluate accurately the last position i wrote of because those people would be advanced spiritually. the last portion i wrote about would put these people on the front lines of spiritual evolution... moving towards a more complete humanity and making the kinds of mistakes that only someone advanced enough to have these tendencies could and who was experimenting with a new way of being.

What "new way" of being? The "correct" way deemed by some vague "advanced spirituality" defined by your religious beliefs? That's just a bunch of gobblygook, to deflect away that you believe these people are living the "wrong" way.

and keep in mind... a generous person would not exaggerate the flaws in these people anyway

Where is the exaggeration? What don't you agree with? You've posted plenty about the lines these people have crossed, which is what most level headed people talk about, when criticizing them. I don't think you're as "generous" as you believe you are. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I think you're confused. Akin to a closeted gay man, who just can't come to terms with who he is.