News Transgender fighter Alana McLaughlin wins MMA debut

Bubzeh said:
Reads like they’re trolling IMO. Patronising to the opponent too.

I just think it’s a shame Florida keeps sanctioning these circus shows (boxing events too).
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I agree that it was very unfair to expect a biological male to keep up with the high level athletes you get in WMMA but on this occasion the biological dude won so we should praise them for that imo.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
I agree that it was very unfair to expect a biological male to keep up with the high level athletes you get in WMMA but on this occasion the biological dude won so we should praise them for that imo.
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Begrudgingly yes. The day we extract our revenge is the day we celebrate!!!
 
Dijardo said:
and why are you acting like all the wmma fighters have an equal athletic abilities all of the sudden? Cyborg had an unfair advantage over her opponents for the most part of her very successful career. and? or Gabi Garcia ffs. as long as it's a sanctioned professional bout, both parties passed their medicals and awere of the situation i'd say let them bang. why do you care?
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Cyborg is a cheating scumbag and shoulda been tossed out of the sport. So should Jon Jones and TJ Dillasnake. Athletes who cheat should be be shat on by fans
 
SokoudjouFanboy said:
Yeah, you clearly posted this thread in hopes of having a good faith, intellectual discussion on a very complicated subject.

There's clearly more nuance to this then you're letting on and I think it's pretty clear why you're ignoring that nuance.. because you're transphobic.
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It's not complicated at all actually. A man is a man and a woman is a woman. A child understands this but you can't....won't. You'd rather tell people they are afraid, when all they are doing is talking scientific fact. You are the one afraid of science apparently. You clearly have a depraved mind.
 
thehighking said:
People who were born as male should not be allowed to compete against females in sports and especially in combat sports. That's unfair and sets a bad precedent.
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Women wanted equality, they got it. Let's just do away with WMMA and let them compete against men. Then we won't have to see WMMA anymore because they won't last long.
 
CinemaKingdom said:
It's not complicated at all actually. A man is a man and a woman is a woman. A child understands this but you can't....won't. You'd rather tell people they are afraid, when all they are doing is talking scientific fact. You are the one afraid of science apparently. You clearly have a depraved mind.
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I think it's pretty clear there's a difference between a biological male who had their balls and dick turned into a vagina preceded/followed by intensive hormone therapy after a decade and one whom this isn't true of. The fact you can't acknowledge this, is where your transphobia comes in. Now, if you were saying you felt very confident that despite this they still have an advantage beyond the scope of what a biological female can achieve I would say you could be right but we don't have this data yet that I have personally seen.

I think you're the one with the depraved mind myself.
 
CinemaKingdom said:
It's not complicated at all actually. A man is a man and a woman is a woman. A child understands this but you can't....won't. You'd rather tell people they are afraid, when all they are doing is talking scientific fact. You are the one afraid of science apparently. You clearly have a depraved mind.
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Lol. Science disagrees with you.
 
SokoudjouFanboy said:
I think it's pretty clear there's a difference between a biological male who had their balls and dick turned into a vagina preceded/followed by intensive hormone therapy after a decade and one whom this isn't true of. The fact you can't acknowledge this, is where your transphobia comes in. Now, if you were saying you felt very confident that despite this they still have an advantage beyond the scope of what a biological female can achieve I would say you could be right but we don't have this data yet that I have personally seen.

I think you're the one with the depraved mind myself.
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We do have that data actually. We see bone mass is preserved even after 12 years of hormone therapy. Muscle loss has only been seen to be as great as 12% after 3 years of testosterone suppression. Grip strength is only reduced by 7-9% after 1-2 years of hormone therapy.

Transgender women seem to remain approximately 50% stronger than females even after 12 months of testosterone suppression. And most startling, 3 years after sex reassignment surgery and 8 years of hormone treatment, transgender women have been found to still be in the top 10% of females regarding lean body mass and have a 25% stronger grip.

Must also take into account the current testosterone guidelines of 10nmol/L or 5nmol/L depending on the organization = 5-10x or greater test than the normal female range.
 
SokoudjouFanboy said:
Actually...

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...manuel-transgender-pioneer-looking-next-fight

This is a complicated subject. I'm very progressive and trans friendly but the science is pretty limited on this subject and conflicting. I'm not in favor of women losing the ability to compete on a reasonably level playing field due to trans women competing, but I'm also not sure there's any evidence that's what's happening.

I'm not sure that it's as simple as the commission is making it by passing a hormone panel, but obviously once a person begins to transition they lose a lot of their biological advantages through the various hormones a MTF trans woman takes. As this subject becomes more prominent we'll get more data in one direction or the other. I'll be in favor of whatever the science supports once it becomes more clear.

To call her a "former military man" is just blatant transphobia.
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transphobia? she was a he then.
 
Sweet Science Of Fighting said:
We do have that data actually. We see bone mass is preserved even after 12 years of hormone therapy. Muscle loss has only been seen to be as great as 12% after 3 years of testosterone suppression. Grip strength is only reduced by 7-9% after 1-2 years of hormone therapy.

Transgender women seem to remain approximately 50% stronger than females even after 12 months of testosterone suppression. And most startling, 3 years after sex reassignment surgery and 8 years of hormone treatment, transgender women have been found to still be in the top 10% of females regarding lean body mass and have a 25% stronger grip.

Must also take into account the current testosterone guidelines of 10nmol/L or 5nmol/L depending on the organization = 5-10x or greater test than the normal female range.
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Appreciate the numbers but they are missing a bunch of context. I will ask though where did you get this info?

https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20210715/do-trans-women-athletes-have-advantages

Check out this article for an interview with one of the very few people who have studied this subject in depth. The same woman who interviewed for that piece wrote a book on the subject that came out in 2019.
 
savemgs said:
transphobia? she was a he then.
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Yes, referring to her in 2021 as a former military man is absolutely transphobic whether you want it to be or not. The thread title could easily have been "former special forces transgender woman beats up opponent in MMA" or some shit but that's not where OP was going and I think you can clearly see that in the rest of his posts.

It's not transphobic to question the ethics on this subject and have a good faith discourse, but there's tons of transphobia in this thread. Fucking tons. This generation may never fully accept trans people but your kids and grandkids probably will, at least a lot more so.
 
SokoudjouFanboy said:
Yes, referring to her in 2021 as a former military man is absolutely transphobic whether you want it to be or not. The thread title could easily have been "former special forces transgender woman beats up opponent in MMA" or some shit but that's not where OP was going and I think you can clearly see that in the rest of his posts.

It's not transphobic to question the ethics on this subject and have a good faith discourse, but there's tons of transphobia in this thread. Fucking tons. This generation may never fully accept trans people but your kids and grandkids probably will, at least a lot more so.
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Maybe some people don’t like seeing people that were men for 20 plus years beat up women. Their choice and how they feel is fine with me, I just don’t care to see people who make that choice compete against women who were born women.
 
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Sweet Science Of Fighting said:
I broke down all of the science behind why males competing against females (even after transitioning) is a bad, bad idea.
https://sweetscienceoffighting.com/transgender-mma-fighters-time-to-stop-the-madness/
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SokoudjouFanboy said:
Appreciate the numbers but they are missing a bunch of context. I will ask though where did you get this info?

https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20210715/do-trans-women-athletes-have-advantages

Check out this article for an interview with one of the very few people who have studied this subject in depth. The same woman who interviewed for that piece wrote a book on the subject that came out in 2019.
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Referenced everything in the first quote @SokoudjouFanboy
 
Bill Laimbeer said:
Maybe some people don’t like seeing people that were men for 20 plus years beat up women. There choice and how they feel is fine with me, I just don’t care to see people who make that choice compete against women who were born women.
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That's fine, but again that's not reflective of the discourse in this thread.
 
It was target practice for the girl and the "dude" would have lost had he been a female
 
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