Social Trans people being removed from the military by Trump for being mentally unfit.

[Hog-train]

Those are for uniform and grooming standards as mentioned directly in what you quoted. All physical fitness tests are based on sex, not gender. I've posted the links to this several times on here already. Transwomen must pass a male physical fitness test. There are no waivers or exceptions

WTH are you talking about. Look at what you quoted me. It clearly says not only grooming, but physical fitness here.

For instance, a service member whose biological sex is male, but who identifies as female and is diagnosed with gender dysphoria and completes a gender transition, must adhere to the grooming, physical fitness and other sex-based standards associated with female service members."

You see, this is why I truly believe so many of y'all are either willfully dishonest or just illiterate. Because in the article you posted it even says

"all service members, regardless of their gender identity, must adhere to the standards associated with their biological sex. These sex-based standards — such as physical fitness and body fat standards — are based on male and female physiology, not gender identity."

Yea this is the 2018 policy. Which was again changed in 2021. There was a policy in 2016, then 2018 and now 2021.

History:

In 2016, transgender military personell were allowed for the first time. The physical standards, grooming, etc were all based on gender identity.

Then in 2018, the policy was changed so that it was biological sex unless the transgender person was already in the military OR had transitioned in their private life before 2018. So any transwoman that transitioned before 2018 or were already in the military still only had to adhere to female fitness standards.

Then in 2021, it was changed AGAIN. Now it's all based on their gender marker in DEERS. A soldier can get their gender marker changed after transition or come in as trans with their preferred gender marker.

A transwomen can join as female if they change your gender markers and are 18 months stable on hormones. They'll be bunked with females, and have female physical fitness and grooming standards.

https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/130028p.pdf

"When a standard,requirement, or policy depends on whether the individual is male or female (e.g., medical fitnessfor duty; physical fitness and body fat standards; berthing, bathroom, and shower facilities; and uniform and grooming standards), all Service members will be subject to the standard, requirement, or policy associated with their gender marker in DEERS."

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

WTH are you talking about. Look at what you quoted me. It clearly says not only grooming, but physical fitness here.

For instance, a service member whose biological sex is male, but who identifies as female and is diagnosed with gender dysphoria and completes a gender transition, must adhere to the grooming, physical fitness and other sex-based standards associated with female service members."



Yea this is the 2018 policy. Which was again changed in 2021. There was a policy in 2016, then 2018 and now 2021.

History:

In 2016, transgender military personell were allowed for the first time. The physical standards, grooming, etc were all based on gender identity.

Then in 2018, the policy was changed so that it was biological sex unless the transgender person was already in the military OR had transitioned in their private life before 2018. So any transwoman that transitioned before 2018 or were already in the military still only had to adhere to female fitness standards.

Then in 2021, it was changed AGAIN. Now it's all based on their gender marker in DEERS. A soldier can get their gender marker changed after transition or come in as trans with their preferred gender marker.

A transwomen can join as female if they change your gender markers and are 18 months stable on hormones. They'll be bunked with females, and have female physical fitness and grooming standards.

https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/issuances/dodi/130028p.pdf

"When a standard,requirement, or policy depends on whether the individual is male or female (e.g., medical fitnessfor duty; physical fitness and body fat standards; berthing, bathroom, and shower facilities; and uniform and grooming standards), all Service members will be subject to the standard, requirement, or policy associated with their gender marker in DEERS."

You initially quoted the extremely 2016 policy. In 2016 there was a trial program that was initiated on a for individuals in physical transition, qualifying for a waiver that allowed some to have modified pft standards. That didn't even last a whole year. In 2018 they released the new policy.

In 2021 DoD Instruction 1300.28 was released and was soon changed in Dec of 2022 to be more restrictive.

Per DoD I 1300.28, all individuals seeking a change to their DEERs marker must be 1) fully transitioned and stable and 2) Granted by the service members command and medical staff. However, changing you marker in this way does not strictly mean they now go by female standards. It means they go by the standards their command seems necessary for their MOS with their physical condition on mind. And more often than not ETPs are limited to uniform and grooming standards or are not granted at all. ETPs are extremely rare and even more so amount trans troops.

The standard is that your physical fitness is based on your sex. That only changes for anyone (trans or otherwise) with a shit ton of medical and command waivers that generally don't get granted because it's not worth it

There is no circumstance where they have to grant you an ETP for fitness standards

 

[Hog-train]

You initially quoted the extremely 2016 policy. In 2016 there was a trial program that was initiated on a for individuals in physical transition, qualifying for a waiver that allowed some to have modified pft standards. That didn't even last a whole year. In 2018 they released the new policy.

In 2021 DoD Instruction 1300.28 was released and was soon changed in Dec of 2022 to be more restrictive.

Per DoD I 1300.28, all individuals seeking a change to their DEERs marker must be 1) fully transitioned and stable and 2) Granted by the service members command and medical staff. However, changing you marker in this way does not strictly mean they now go by female standards. It means they go by the standards their command seems necessary for their MOS with their physical condition on mind. And more often than not ETPs are limited to uniform and grooming standards or are not granted at all. ETPs are extremely rare and even more so amount trans troops.

The standard is that your physical fitness is based on your sex. That only changes for anyone (trans or otherwise) with a shit ton of medical and command waivers that generally don't get granted because it's not worth it

There is no circumstance where they have to grant you an ETP for fitness standards

But you can come in already transitioned and have a female gender marker in DEERS even if you're a transwomen. Then they would have to adhere to female fitness standards.

You're claiming transwomen only adhere to male fitness standards when that is not the case.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

But you can come in already transitioned and have a female gender marker in DEERS even if you're a transwomen. Then they would have to adhere to female fitness standards.

You're claiming transwomen only adhere to male fitness standards when that is not the case.

You still need a waiver and a specified ETP to come in with your DEERS marker changed. And even then that does not strictly put you on the normal female standards.

By default transwomen fall under male standards. It is only with a ridiculous amount of waivers and command approval that it can change. That once again rarely gets granted because needs if the mission come first.

But yes, extremely rarely, you will find a trans troops that gets their standards adjusted post transition. I will correct myself for not mentioning the fringe cases of this

Your multiple statements that all trans people go by female standards is still categorically wrong

 

[Hog-train]

You still need a waiver and a specified ETP to come in with your DEERS marker changed. And even then that does not strictly put you on the normal female standards.

But that's what it literally says.

"When a standard,requirement, or policy depends on whether the individual is male or female (e.g., medical fitnessfor duty; physical fitness and body fat standards; berthing, bathroom, and shower facilities; and uniform and grooming standards), all Service members will be subject to the standard, requirement, or policy associated with their gender marker in DEERS."

 

[Khaosan]

The irony of a draft dodging coward banning service members is as equally comical as it is pathetic.

 

[evansusmc2]

Most jobs in the military are non combative. It has nothing to do with lower standards. That's just how it works.

When did I say most jobs "weren't combat MOSes"? The fact that they are absent for an ungodly amount of physical, medication, mental health appointments proves my points by default. And that's just for starters before I gotta start bringing up actual incidents (first and second hand) to hurt your feelings.

Stop talking about shit you're painfully clueless about

OOHhhhh Miss GSG has no idea who she is talking to huh?? Served 8 years in the Marines and 12 in the Army. All active. Retired in 2019. Still keep in contact with a whooooole bunch of active duty friends.
[EM] https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/military-roll-call-veterans-gtfih.3269149/post-117861371 []

 

[evansusmc2]

They don't. All branches physical fitness tests are based on sex. Not gender. Trans women have to pass the male

Hopefully this is true but in Fort Lewis 2023 there was a failed janky protest over this.

 

[evergreenrider]

Hopefully this is true but in Fort Lewis 2023 there was a failed janky protest over this.

Im assuming JBLM? Considering it's in the heart of west coast liberalville, I'm not surprised they attempted to stage a protest. Couldn't have made the traffic any worse.

 

[evansusmc2]

Im assuming JBLM? Considering it's in the heart of west coast liberalville, I'm not surprised they attempted to stage a protest. Couldn't have made the traffic any worse.

Sure was. One of my former soldiers told me about it. It was't in his exact BN but the same BDE. So I can't really repeat it without it being too much 2nd hand.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

But that's what it literally says.

"When a standard,requirement, or policy depends on whether the individual is male or female (e.g., medical fitnessfor duty; physical fitness and body fat standards; berthing, bathroom, and shower facilities; and uniform and grooming standards), all Service members will be subject to the standard, requirement, or policy associated with their gender marker in DEERS."

You'd be less confused if you read the whole thing and stopped misquoting the DODI

3.1. GENERAL. a. Except where an exception to policy (ETP) has been granted transgender Service members will be subject to the same standards as all other Service members. When a standard, requirement, or policy depends on whether the individual is male or female (e.g., medical fitness for duty; physical fitness and body fat standards; berthing, bathroom, and shower facilities; and uniform and grooming standards), all Service members will be subject to the standard, requirement, or policy associated with their gender marker in DEERS.

f. Commanders will assess expected impacts on mission and readiness after consideration of the advice of military medical providers and will address such impacts in accordance with this issuance. In applying the tools described in this issuance, a commander will not accommodate biases against transgender individuals. If a Service member is unable to meet standards or requires an ETP during a period of gender transition, all applicable tools, including the tools described in this issuance, will be available to commanders to minimize impacts to the mission and unit readiness.

g. When a cognizant military medical provider determines that a Service member’s gender transition is complete, and at a time approved by the commander in consultation with the Service member concerned, the Service member’s gender marker will be changed in DEERS and the Service member will be recognized in the self-identified gender.



At no point does a DEERS marker fail to reflect your birth certificate without commanders approval

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

When did I say most jobs "weren't combat MOSes"? The fact that they are absent for an ungodly amount of physical, medication, mental health appointments proves my points by default. And that's just for starters before I gotta start bringing up actual incidents (first and second hand) to hurt your feelings.

OOHhhhh Miss GSG has no idea who she is talking to huh?? Served 8 years in the Marines and 12 in the Army. All active. Retired in 2019. Still keep in contact with a whooooole bunch of active duty friends.
[EM] https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/military-roll-call-veterans-gtfih.3269149/post-117861371 []

Yaaawn

Debunked you on all this multiple times and you dick tucked like a pussy. Cry harder bum

Service is better off without you.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Hopefully this is true but in Fort Lewis 2023 there was a failed janky protest over this.

Its literally been in every DoDI since 2018. They've always had to do male standards

 

[sanguinius]

Do the ones that support trannies in the military support all mental illnesses being allowed in the military, or is it just the trendy ones?

 

[Hog-train]

You'd be less confused if you read the whole thing and stopped misquoting the DODI

3.1. GENERAL. a. Except where an exception to policy (ETP) has been granted transgender Service members will be subject to the same standards as all other Service members. When a standard, requirement, or policy depends on whether the individual is male or female (e.g., medical fitness for duty; physical fitness and body fat standards; berthing, bathroom, and shower facilities; and uniform and grooming standards), all Service members will be subject to the standard, requirement, or policy associated with their gender marker in DEERS.

f. Commanders will assess expected impacts on mission and readiness after consideration of the advice of military medical providers and will address such impacts in accordance with this issuance. In applying the tools described in this issuance, a commander will not accommodate biases against transgender individuals. If a Service member is unable to meet standards or requires an ETP during a period of gender transition, all applicable tools, including the tools described in this issuance, will be available to commanders to minimize impacts to the mission and unit readiness.

g. When a cognizant military medical provider determines that a Service member’s gender transition is complete, and at a time approved by the commander in consultation with the Service member concerned, the Service member’s gender marker will be changed in DEERS and the Service member will be recognized in the self-identified gender.



At no point does a DEERS marker fail to reflect your birth certificate without commanders approval

Everything you just listed doesn't contradict what I said.

A soldier has to adhere to the the fitness standards of their gender marker in DEERS. So if a transwoman's gender marker is a woman, they have to pass the female fitness standards.

Stop trying to confuse the issue. It literally says it in black and white.

all Service members will be subject to the standard, requirement, or policy associated with their gender marker in DEERS."

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Everything you just listed doesn't contradict what I said.

A soldier has to adhere to the the fitness standards of their gender marker in DEERS. So if a transwoman's gender marker is a woman, they have to pass the female fitness standards.

Stop trying to confuse the issue. It literally says it in black and white.

all Service members will be subject to the standard, requirement, or policy associated with their gender marker in DEERS."

Its not confusing the issue. It's the way ETP works. It is a collection of multiple waivers that have to go through chain of command before being approved and can have stipulations attached.

For example stipulations can be that the DEERS marker can change but physical standards must remain within passing for male (which 1st class female scores are well above passing) or limited simply to uniform and grooming standards.

You want to make this into something that does not reflect the bulk of actual trans troops and im not going to entertain it. 99% can't get waivers and pass their pft based on sex. Womp womp

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Stop trying to confuse the issue. It literally says it in black and white.

"Gender transition while serving in the military presents unique challenges associated with addressing the needs of the Service member in a manner consistent with military mission and readiness. Where possible, gender transition should be conducted such that a Service member would meet all applicable standards and be available for duty in the birth gender before a change in the Service member’s gender marker in DEERS and would meet all applicable standards and be available for duty in the self-identified gender after the change in gender marker. However, since every transition is unique, the policies and procedures set forth herein provide flexibility to the Military Departments, Services, and commanders, in addressing transitions that may or may not follow this construct. These policies and procedures are applicable, in whole or in relevant part, to Service members who intend to begin transition, are beginning transition, who already may have started transition, and who have completed gender transition and are stable in their self-identified gender. "

In black and white. You need to meet sex standards before the Gender Marker is changed.

 

[GhostZ06]

Good call?

No, i don't think so. As American, you have a right to serve our country doesn't matter who you are, color, race, sex as long as your willing to serve, i will proudly respect them. The fact people in here are so bigoted about is also kind of weird, if ain't bothering you, why do you care?

Whos to say what they are is an issue. It doesn't bother me, nor do i care. That kind of rubs me the wrong way, since my people(African Americans) Had to go through hell just to serve in the military. They got kicked an dragged though the mud before we got any respect. I don't understand why this is the focus of the Donnie dump, but its really weird.


1800s-1980s America had some dark times when it came to race relations. It does kinda disturb me when people are hyper focused on this kind of crap. Making it a political thing is kind of a resurface from our historical passed, and very similar to what the Nazi's did and old America. That does kind spook me a little bit, we've come a long way to kinda walk hand an hand, why ruin that?

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

That kind of rubs me the wrong way, since my people(African Americans) Had to go through hell just to serve in the military an, got kicked an dragged though the mud before we got any respect.

They used to say to say we were mentally unfit to serve. Then it was that we weren't fit enough for a high skill MOS (tanks and pilots). Then when we started getting black generals they say it's for publicity.

The American people have a long, decorated, history of shiting on service members. Especially the ones who really had to get it out of the mud.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Do the ones that support trannies in the military support all mental illnesses being allowed in the military, or is it just the trendy ones?

Just the ones they deem virtuous.