Training for martial arts, without training martial arts?

[Halge]

So this is a question on the "C" side of Strength & Conditioning. Or maybe somewhere between conditioning and technique.

I've turned into a computer-bound couch potato over the last couple of years. Used to weight train pretty seriously, so I can still lift a fair amount of weight. But I move like Frankensteins monster. No joke - coordination is completely out the window. "Athletic" movements feel completely alien.

Concurrently, my home town (and country) has turned to shit pretty hard. Crime is literally out of control, to the point where I feel a certain impetus to learn self defense in order to feel less like a sitting duck.
But given that I'm in worse shape that I've ever been, my starting off point is pretty bad.
Hopefully I'll eventually be able to force myself to start taking judo classes or something like that, but I'd kinda prefer to start by just getting myself back to the point where I can move like a normal person.

As in, I dunno, turning, twisting, punching*, kicking*, crawling, going from one of the aforementioned movements to another quickly, et cetera.

I know there's a whole bunch of alternatives for this type of general conditioning improvement. But if you were to pick GC excercise methods with self defense prep, coordination and just making yourself more nimble in mind, what would you recommend? From the point of view of a borderline geriatric with no previous martial arts training? Preferably something I can do from the comfort of my own house. Personally I'm kinda leaning towards finding a youtube channel in the mold of those old follow along aerobics videos that used to be popular in the 1980s and 1990s.

*Not necessarily with force or great technique, just feeling comfortable in executing the basic movement properly.

 

[Fahcough]

a 20lb Bulgarian style sandbag and 50 lb common cylinder style sandbag.
Move with them, throw them, ground n pound them , roll with them on your body for core / grip strengthening , tell them you're gonna shit in they mouth if they step in your yard again.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

There are only 2 instances during training where I almost puke. 1 of those was doing this.

 

[RedNeckJiuJitsu]

While the desire to not look like a complete newbie is understandable, you're far better off just getting to a class and being consistent, even if you feel like you move like the Frankenstein monster, as opposed to not doing anything.

If you do truly have the personal discipline to keep at it, the Bas Rutte work out is fantastic. Jason scully's solo drills for BJJ will be helpful as well. Grab some instructional videos and just start working through the movements as well as you can on your own.

But, from experience, you'll gain more quicker from a class than totally solo.

 

[DEVILsSON]

You can never substitute real life self defense or martial arts training with non contact training. Visualization can help if you can do that then do it but it's not a replacement. Like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. So no amount of Youtube videos will substitute for real life training.

Part of self defense is being aware of your surroundings. This takes practice like conscious or unconscious people watching. Being in good shape is a big bonus. If you can run away from a violent situation then that's typically the preferable path. Being strong can help mitigate part of someone's size or fighting skill. You may want to mentally prepare yourself by going through scenarios and what you'd like to do and maybe even practice it.

Being trained in self defense is a bit different than martial arts. From what little I know there are no rules in streets fights and simple brutality can often be the difference. That's what my defensive tactics training officers taught us. You likely don't want to go to the ground but if you do, you want to 'win' quickly.

Judo is a good common martial art to try for self defense. Krav Maga may be the best real world martial arts to train in if it's available.

Concealed carry weapon may be the best self protection method if it's an option in your country. Most of the time just the sight of a firearm ends most confrontations. But it's a big responsibility which requires lots of accuracy training, weapon retention training, licensing/insurance, proper planning, and responsible weapon storage.

 

[MilkManUK]

You can never substitute real life self defense or martial arts training with non contact training. Visualization can help if you can do that then do it but it's not a replacement. Like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. So no amount of Youtube videos will substitute for real life training.

Part of self defense is being aware of your surroundings. This takes practice like conscious or unconscious people watching. Being in good shape is a big bonus. If you can run away from a violent situation then that's typically the preferable path. Being strong can help mitigate part of someone's size or fighting skill. You may want to mentally prepare yourself by going through scenarios and what you'd like to do and maybe even practice it.

Being trained in self defense is a bit different than martial arts. From what little I know there are no rules in streets fights and simple brutality can often be the difference. That's what my defensive tactics training officers taught us. You likely don't want to go to the ground but if you do, you want to 'win' quickly.

Judo is a good common martial art to try for self defense. Krav Maga may be the best real world martial arts to train in if it's available.

Concealed carry weapon may be the best self protection method if it's an option in your country. Most of the time just the sight of a firearm ends most confrontations. But it's a big responsibility which requires lots of accuracy training, weapon retention training, licensing/insurance, proper planning, and responsible weapon storage.

Good post @DEVILsSON , bravo.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Jump rope, sprint intervals, various plyos for athleticism.

This would all just be for mental confidence that you can protect yourself or run, when the reality is none of these things will help you more than 10-20% imo

 

[Halge]

What the hell - I thought I'd get notified whenever someone posted in this thread. I'm such a boomer. Sorry I haven't been more active itt.

Jump ropes and sprints and the classic Rocky-type excercises will probably make the list.
I went ahead and ordered a 60 pound (loadable max weight) punching bag. Whacking that around for 30 minutes or so a day will probably be reasonably goal-specific, and work up some conditioning in the process. I might even conceivably learn a teensy bit of actual technique in the process by looking at instructional videos. I don't expect it to be a long-term solution obviously.

I kinda wish I had the space to throw one of those wrestling dummies around. That looks like exactly the kind of, I dunno, athletic compound movements or whatever you want to call it that I'm after. Could probably do it unsupervised without injuring myself, as long as I'm careful. Probably won't happen though.

 

[Halge]

You can never substitute real life self defense or martial arts training with non contact training. Visualization can help if you can do that then do it but it's not a replacement. Like Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. So no amount of Youtube videos will substitute for real life training.

I know. But knowing myself, I'll probably won't feel comfortable even going to a martial arts club unless I've at least messed around with the basics on my own for a bit.

If you can run away from a violent situation then that's typically the preferable path.

The violent situations in question will quite possibly arise from me seeing someone else getting attacked and wanting to step in. So running away isn't really an option in that sense.

Being trained in self defense is a bit different than martial arts. From what little I know there are no rules in streets fights and simple brutality can often be the difference. That's what my defensive tactics training officers taught us. You likely don't want to go to the ground but if you do, you want to 'win' quickly.

Well, I guess my ambition is to, for lack of a better description, be able to lay someone out really quick. The fights you are likely to get into are with immigrant gangs, and they never, ever, fight one on one. If one of them happens to be alone and you get into a confrontation with them for some reason, they'll simply act peaceful and walk away - and then return a few minutes later with a couple of buddies in tow. Think two-legged hyenas in an urban environment, and that's pretty much the scenario I'm aiming at being able to deal with.
Obviously what I'd really like to train is something akin to knife-fighting, since that seems like the most effective way of laying someone out quickly. But carrying a knife is highly illegal over here. And then actually knifing someone on top of that -even in self-defense- would likely send me away to prison for something like 4-10 years.

Judo is a good common martial art to try for self defense. Krav Maga may be the best real world martial arts to train in if it's available.

Something like that. I think long-term I might want something I perceive to be a bit nastier and comprehensive, like MMA training.

Concealed carry weapon may be the best self protection method if it's an option in your country.

It's an option in every country...Concealed means cops can't see it.

Most of the time just the sight of a firearm ends most confrontations. But it's a big responsibility which requires lots of accuracy training, weapon retention training, licensing/insurance, proper planning, and responsible weapon storage.

That's not an option, unless I make a visit to my local Bosnian expat black market gun dealer.

 

[DEVILsSON]

I know. But knowing myself, I'll probably won't feel comfortable even going to a martial arts club unless I've at least messed around with the basics on my own for a bit.



The violent situations in question will quite possibly arise from me seeing someone else getting attacked and wanting to step in. So running away isn't really an option in that sense.



Well, I guess my ambition is to, for lack of a better description, be able to lay someone out really quick. The fights you are likely to get into are with immigrant gangs, and they never, ever, fight one on one. If one of them happens to be alone and you get into a confrontation with them for some reason, they'll simply act peaceful and walk away - and then return a few minutes later with a couple of buddies in tow. Think two-legged hyenas in an urban environment, and that's pretty much the scenario I'm aiming at being able to deal with.
Obviously what I'd really like to train is something akin to knife-fighting, since that seems like the most effective way of laying someone out quickly. But carrying a knife is highly illegal over here. And then actually knifing someone on top of that -even in self-defense- would likely send me away to prison for something like 4-10 years.



Something like that. I think long-term I might want something I perceive to be a bit nastier and comprehensive, like MMA training.


It's an option in every country...Concealed means cops can't see it.




That's not an option, unless I make a visit to my local Bosnian expat black market gun dealer.

There are no winners in fights with bladed weapons. No matter how amazing you think you are, you'll likely get sliced or stabbed. There are some videos online of bad examples. If you have a firearm and they are within 21 feet, you start shooting and don't stop until they are down. If you failed to unholster your gun before they are within that 21 foot distance give or take, you're going to get sliced or stabbed.

I have taken a couple bladed weapons classes and realistically it's bs. It's a bit like Steven Seagull self defense courses or the nonsensical demonstration videos you see on Youtube. Bad guys will not stand there limp wristed and let you do whatever you want. The best you can hope for is avoid getting stabbed in vital areas which is what the bladed course taught us.

It sounds like you want to play the hero but what you'll likely become is another victim. It is better to be a good witness or run away if necessary.

Even being an expert in martial arts will not help against multiple attackers with weapons in the real world.

My advice is to stop whatever super hero movie or action movie (Taken/ Bourne Identity) you have playing in your mind and understand real life is not that. You may get yourself or another person killed needlessly.

I would advise against illegally carrying concealed firearms.

 

[Fahcough]

I have taken a couple bladed weapons classes and realistically it's bs. It's a bit like Steven Seagull self defense courses or the nonsensical demonstration videos you see on Youtube. Bad guys will not stand there limp wristed and let you do whatever you want.

Took 1 blade class in Krav and a level 3 diced my forearm up, knocked the blade out of my hand and accidentally poked me in the eye with the rubber tip. fk this, sticking to my firearms. I just died at 2mph fake telegraphed slicing.

 

[deadshot138]

Mace/gada swings are what Indian wrestlers used for training. It's apparently similar to throwing someone over your shoulder. Also builds rotational strength so could help with striking as well.

 

[Halge]

There are no winners in fights with bladed weapons.

Depends on if both parties are using them, doesn't it? If I'm attacked by one/many assailants using their fists, me having a knife would give me an advantage.

It sounds like you want to play the hero

No, I'd prefer not to. But you assume I'll have a choice.

 

[DoctorWashington]

Think about growing up and avoiding this situation where you cant avoid getting jumped.

You are fantasizing about being a hero with a knife. God help you. Quit watching tv and live your life in the real world.

Youre fixin to either get murdered, or be the focus of a massive media circus trial about a retard who went out looking for violence and killed some people over an argument. The way you speak makes it 1000% obvious this is an ego/insecurity issue that has nothing to do with satefy.

Why not avoid the "two legged urban hyenas"? Because VICTORY over them in your head is what this is all about for your ego. Grow. The fuck. Up. Wanna kill some people? The American Marines will take you. Move to America and join, their military is in the middle of a recruiting crisis. If you're not willing to do that, be realistic abou what you are and thank God you dont actually have to go around killing people.

Think about your warm bed and hot dinner. That all goes away forever if you start stabbing and shooting, and that's if youre lucky.

Maybe just workout and quit watching such weird movies and news stories?

If you are actually in danger get a gun cowboy, but be realistic about what happens when you get shot at and shoot at people. The movie in your head is not how that goes.

Come on this is beyond retarded.

 

[DoctorWashington]

I know. But knowing myself, I'll probably won't feel comfortable even going to a martial arts club unless I've at least messed around with the basics on my own for a bit.

Then you're going to literally shit all over yourself in an actual confrontation, which is our first reason why you should abandon this fantasy.

The violent situations in question will quite possibly arise from me seeing someone else getting attacked and wanting to step in. So running away isn't really an option in that sense.

You're old and untrained and afraid of even going to class. All you're gonna do is give the first responders two victims to come pick up instead of one. The first rule of combat life saving is don't run out and get yourself shot trying to save a guy who got shot.

Well, I guess my ambition is to, for lack of a better description, be able to lay someone out really quick.

Not how life works, corn dog.

The fights you are likely to get into are with immigrant gangs, and they never, ever, fight one on one. If one of them happens to be alone and you get into a confrontation with them for some reason, they'll simply act peaceful and walk away - and then return a few minutes later with a couple of buddies in tow. Think two-legged hyenas in an urban environment, and that's pretty much the scenario I'm aiming at being able to deal with.

This is why you're going to end up in prison or dead if you try this. Literally looking for "immigrant gangs" to fight with. How could that turn out badly for you? Jesus Christ dude.

Obviously what I'd really like to train is something akin to knife-fighting, since that seems like the most effective way of laying someone out quickly. But carrying a knife is highly illegal over here. And then actually knifing someone on top of that -even in self-defense- would likely send me away to prison for something like 4-10 years.

So practice stretching your butthole and enjoying cold food. That's what you're trying to trade your nice life for. Start brainstorming what kind of letters you'd like to write on Sunday to your relatives and former friends on the outside. Because avoiding conflict was too much mental effort, you decided what you needed to do was get a weapon and go out and look for fights. In your own words, that will give you 4-10 years of time locked away in prison, getting ass raped and eating cold food for dinner.

You're a human right? Don't you have a brain? If a lion moved in next door, would you look for ways to beat the lion in a biting and clawing fight? Or do you have a big brain you could engage and try to figure out ways to avoid getting into a fight with the lion? Come on dude.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Train like an athlete is the best answer

athleticism trumps fighting styles

you can always shadow box

 

[DEVILsSON]

Depends on if both parties are using them, doesn't it? If I'm attacked by one/many assailants using their fists, me having a knife would give me an advantage.




No, I'd prefer not to. But you assume I'll have a choice.

So to summarize you cannot legally carry firearms or knives, don't want to take self defense classes, and yet somehow imagine you'll be anything more than a victim in any plausible violent confrontation?

A decade ago I had to briefly work with a small scrawny weird guy who acted like he was Steve Urkel from Family Matters. On our first day of familiarization with the city parks as unarmed park rangers, just him and i, we went to a bad area in the city. There were two large Samoan guys smoking cigarettes in the park. Urkel decided it was a good idea to confront them about it in a fairly aggressive manner. Luckily for us they were cool and just left. However we were aware of at least a couple other similar instances where a couple rangers got badly hurt/assaulted doing stupid shit just like that. All we had were literally just radios at the time and were driving unmarked city vehicle. This guy later got fired for being an idiot with zero common sense and later arrested in another state for impersonating an officer and sexual battery of a female motorist. I still have no clue what that guy was thinking.

Don't be dumb. Avoid bad areas. You know where these people congregate so avoid them. Don't go looking for confrontations. If you're afraid to go into a controlled environment to learn, you'll very likely freeze up and get jumped, robbed and or badly hurt. You're not a character out of Kiss Ass.

If you do carry a weapon and very likely miscalculate a split second decision, you may die, have someone else needlessly die, or end up in prison because you'll shoot or stab someone in a situation which is not legally justified.

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

Depends on if both parties are using them, doesn't it? If I'm attacked by one/many assailants using their fists, me having a knife would give me an advantage.




No, I'd prefer not to. But you assume I'll have a choice.

If you're outnumbered and use a knife, then there's a decent chance an attacker gets the knife and uses it on you. Surely mace/pepper spray isn't illegal to carry? That can be used at a distance, and you can probably use most of the container in one go, then it can't be used against you

 

[ROcknrollracing]

If you're outnumbered and use a knife, then there's a decent chance an attacker gets the knife and uses it on you. Surely mace/pepper spray isn't illegal to carry? That can be used at a distance, and you can probably use most of the container in one go, then it can't be used against you

problem with pepper spray is it can spray in your own eyes with the wind

 

[DEVILsSON]

If you're outnumbered and use a knife, then there's a decent chance an attacker gets the knife and uses it on you. Surely mace/pepper spray isn't illegal to carry? That can be used at a distance, and you can probably use most of the container in one go, then it can't be used against you

Pepper spray is an option but again it depends on the jurisdiction and other factors. Some people are prohibited from carrying it. You also have to train with it consistently.

Its effectiveness will also vary. At distance it may miss and at close distance the attacker can still hit, tackle or stab you. Outside, the wind could blow it back in your own face or create a cross contamination issue. Something tells me op is not Jean Claude Van Damme in Bloodsport.

Some people are also unaffected by oc/pepper spray. This stuff fucked me up while another guy in our class had slight redness. I on the other hand was breathing cn gas just fine while that other oc guy was fucked up on the ground puking.