Toyota's US Headquarters Is Moving..

[5H3RD0G]

Why not, better BBQ and lower cost of living. Congratulations to the new age of movement.

 

[ben236]

I think we have a big difference of opinion about the value of anecdotal evidence. My point in mentioning my wife (not GF) and others I know was to show that I personally see a lot of anecdotal evidence of mobility in CA. You see the opposite. Fair enough. I believe you, and I believe there are other people who see even more of it than I do. Here's the data:

http://www.pewstates.org/research/data-visualizations/economic-mobility-of-the-states-85899381539

Basically, the South (including Texas) sucks by that measure, the Northeast is very good and everyone else, including CA, is the same.

I certainly would like to see more of it. I don't really get what this discussion has to do with that, though. My general belief is that by almost any way you look at it, the Northeastern states are the best-run, the South are the worst-run, and everyone else (including CA) is in the middle. Texas is one of the least-bad of the Southern states, so it's odd to me that people always try to contrast Texas and CA (because I see them as both middle-of-the-pack states that are not as ideologically extreme as they are often portrayed as). Why don't conservatives compare Alabama and Massachusetts?

So New York ranks highest on social mobility according to that site.

Yet from everything I've seen, it has the highest Gini coefficient of any state in the US.

http://www.reuters.com/subjects/income-inequality

Which to me, seems a little weird to say the least.

 

[PEB]

Not surprising Toyota as well as many Japanese companies have no engineering here in the US. They only have a design house that will still reside in California. Japanese companies look for huge handouts and Texas as well as most Southern states pull out all the stops. Remember as this goes on Mercedes just opened a huge new engineering operation in Long Beach where thousands of jobs are going to be created.

Tesla Motors was going to move their gigafactory to Texas now it looks like Nevada is going to be its new home. So as much as the right wing likes to point these things out there are stories that are going in the opposite direction. Car companies look for an edge in engineering and development look to California. Yet the fish that so interested Rich Perry "Smith & Wesson" continues its operation in that liberal heaven Massachusetts.


http://www.presstelegram.com/genera...o-move-into-iconic-boeing-plant-in-long-beach

 

[Blood Python]

Here in Plano we see the effects of this general move to Texas. House prices jumped 20% in the last year after 10 years of being the same.

tons of people flocking to Austin daily. My house is going up in value by 20k this year

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

They're going to change the demographics and politics of the state and pretty soon you'll have 10 round magazine limits and DMVs built specifically for illegal aliens.

I know California refugees are flocking Nevada, as well. Good thing the heat keeps most of them as visitors only, but enough of them have moved here that they've changed the politics over the decades.

 

[Zoti]

They're going to change the demographics and politics of the state and pretty soon you'll have 10 round magazine limits and DMVs built specifically for illegal aliens.

I know California refugees are flocking Nevada, as well. Good thing the heat keeps most of them as visitors only, but enough of them have moved here that they've changed the politics over the decades.

Doesn't matter how many stinky hippies come over. This is Texas.

 

[ElKarlo]

Jack, I agree with Zankou. My family has been in LA since it was founded. We rolled out in the late 80's, as the crime and COL became too much. My cousins are still there, though the ones who can make it on their own left LA.
LA is broken, it has too much stratification, and has become impossible to live in for middle class people.
And as was said, the people leaving are being replaced, almost exclusively by immigrants to the US. Which isn't a good sign for LA.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Why is this happening? Why are the powers that be not fixing it?

You can't fix shit in Cali. The state constitution is set up that way, between public referendums and the inability to deal with spending problems. Cali is totally in thrall to public sector unions as well, they're bankrupting themselves buying retired firefighters Porches. They have significant spending problems and neither the political will nor in some cases even the ability (due to past legislative decisions) to do anything about them. California is beautiful, has a great public university system, and is the center of innovation in our economy. But those great things have let it slide on some very real public budgetary issues and those chickens are coming home to roost. It's a terribly managed state and I don't see it getting any better. I wouldn't keep my HQ there either unless I had to to access a specific source of talent, by which I mean Silicon Valley. Certainly I get why Toyota would move; plenty of good marketers and accountants in TX and the legal and tax regimes are much more favorable.

 

[Uchi Mata]

So New York ranks highest on social mobility according to that site.

Yet from everything I've seen, it has the highest Gini coefficient of any state in the US.

http://www.reuters.com/subjects/income-inequality

Which to me, seems a little weird to say the least.

New York is a bit of a special case since the incredibly high wealth of many people in NYC are going to throw the GINI coefficient out of whack. But the fact that there are many super rich people in NYC who drive the average income far past the median income doesn't invalidate the fact that New York is also the place where it's easiest to go from poor to middle class. Frankly I think it's a great example of how it doesn't really matter for social stability if some people are vey rich if the vast majority of people at least have realistic chances of bettering their own situation.

 

[ben236]

New York is a bit of a special case since the incredibly high wealth of many people in NYC are going to throw the GINI coefficient out of whack. But the fact that there are many super rich people in NYC who drive the average income far past the median income doesn't invalidate the fact that New York is also the place where it's easiest to go from poor to middle class. Frankly I think it's a great example of how it doesn't really matter for social stability if some people are vey rich if the vast majority of people at least have realistic chances of bettering their own situation.

The GINI coefficient and income mobility tend to be directly correlated. Maybe New York is some kind of crazy outlier but the idea that the state with the highest gini coefficient also has the highest income mobility is something that makes me very skeptical.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You can't fix shit in Cali. The state constitution is set up that way, between public referendums and the inability to deal with spending problems. Cali is totally in thrall to public sector unions as well, they're bankrupting themselves buying retired firefighters Porches. They have significant spending problems and neither the political will nor in some cases even the ability (due to past legislative decisions) to do anything about them. California is beautiful, has a great public university system, and is the center of innovation in our economy. But those great things have let it slide on some very real public budgetary issues and those chickens are coming home to roost. It's a terribly managed state and I don't see it getting any better. I wouldn't keep my HQ there either unless I had to to access a specific source of talent, by which I mean Silicon Valley. Certainly I get why Toyota would move; plenty of good marketers and accountants in TX and the legal and tax regimes are much more favorable.

When you say "spending problem," what do you mean? We're not facing any real budgetary issues right now.

 

[Blood Python]

Doesn't matter how many stinky hippies come over. This is Texas.

We won't turn blue. No more vacancy in Austin for Cali and Portland people sorry. The people here are fed up with how many people are moving here and cluttering up the streets daily.

 

[TeTe]

We won't turn blue. No more vacancy in Austin for Cali and Portland people sorry. The people here are fed up with how many people are moving here and cluttering up the streets daily.

Funny how they built that toll road you can haul ass on outside the city and nobody uses it. Guess they should have found a different way to ease traffic on the 35.

 

[Uchi Mata]

When you say "spending problem," what do you mean? We're not facing any real budgetary issues right now.

California's budget is only balanced if you ignore huge shortfalls in teacher and public employee retirement funds which could very well lead the state to bankruptcy within a few decades. And that's just on the state level; many municipalities large and small have enormous unfunded liabilities in the form of pensions to public employees that they will never be able to fulfill. Mid 21st century CA is going to be full of little Detroits declaring bankruptcy and cutting pensions which will seriously hurt both taxpayers and retirees. CA also owes the feds billions in borrowed unemployment insurance payout $$$ that it has no plan for how to repay. The state's definitely in trouble, though given the massive resources both physical and human in the state I think there's plenty of hope if you can muster the political will to do something about it. Personally, I have my doubts that will happen because your liberals are too liberal and your conservatives are too conservatives. CA needs some moderates to actually get shit done.

 

[Uchi Mata]

We won't turn blue. No more vacancy in Austin for Cali and Portland people sorry. The people here are fed up with how many people are moving here and cluttering up the streets daily.

You'll turn blue not because of American lefties, but because your population is increasingly Latino and they won't vote for the GOP for obvious reasons.

 

[Uchi Mata]

The GINI coefficient and income mobility tend to be directly correlated. Maybe New York is some kind of crazy outlier but the idea that the state with the highest gini coefficient also has the highest income mobility is something that makes me very skeptical.

Gini is very affected by extremes, and NY has a lot more extremes with the concentration of mega-wealth in NYC. But the vast majority of people don't worry about being super wealthy, they worry about being able to move up the rung a little bit themselves. NY state can be very good at allowing people to go from poverty to lower middle class without that movement really affected the Gini coefficient very much because the huge outliers in NYC will still throw it off.

Let's say you have a state where everyone makes the same amount of money more or less, and then Bill Gates moves there. Their Gini coefficient will skyrocket because you've added so much wealth inequality, but it won't really have that much of an impact on the state in the real world. You have to look at why the Gini is where it's at: is it because there are a lot of really poor people and quite a few pretty rich people? Because that's generally unstable. But if it's because there is a relatively normal distribution of incomes (normal in the colloquial sense, income is almost always log-normally distributed for any group of people) with a few super rich throwing the Gini out of whack it's probably not that big of a deal.

 

[Jack V Savage]

California's budget is only balanced if you ignore huge shortfalls in teacher and public employee retirement funds which could very well lead the state to bankruptcy within a few decades.

The state is looking like it'll use its current budget surplus to pay down debt and to establish a rainy day fund. As we get deeper into the recovery, we'll have bigger surpluses. The shortfalls in the pension fund are something that needs to be addressed, but you're wildly overstating the issue.

The state's definitely in trouble, though given the massive resources both physical and human in the state I think there's plenty of hope if you can muster the political will to do something about it. Personally, I have my doubts that will happen because your liberals are too liberal and your conservatives are too conservatives. CA needs some moderates to actually get shit done.

The state isn't in trouble (I can't speak about local gov'ts because I don't have as much prior knowledge or resources to find good data on it). Something I think people from outside the state don't appreciate is that while it leans left, conservatives have huge structural advantages built into the government. That does make it very hard to adjust when that's needed, which is why it's not as well-governed as most liberal states (though it's not as badly governed as the South).

 

[MicroBrew]

We won't turn blue. No more vacancy in Austin for Cali and Portland people sorry. The people here are fed up with how many people are moving here and cluttering up the streets daily.

Re. bolded
What bout increasing Mexican American numbers?

 

[Diamond Jim]

We won't turn blue. No more vacancy in Austin for Cali and Portland people sorry. The people here are fed up with how many people are moving here and cluttering up the streets daily.

Not this year with Wendy but not sure on future. Texas has one of the lowest voter turnout in the country. I'm not sure on his name but a guy who helped the Obama ground game on the national level is here with a group trying to build a ground game that will at the very least be competitive elections. Will it work? Not sure but the demographics don't lie.

 

[Diamond Jim]

Funny how they built that toll road you can haul ass on outside the city and nobody uses it. Guess they should have found a different way to ease traffic on the 35.

There's a documentary called Truth be Tolled on this. Not that long but shows the money, power and basically corruption involved with the toll roads.