"To gi or not to gi" by Cesar Gracie

I love the gi for the simple reason that I'm old and it slows shit down for me. I think it's safer too because the meatheads don't want to do the gi, they want to do UFC.
 
This thread is win in so many ways!

I learned that even at 30 years old I am still a teenager!

I'm not a big fan of no-gi myself, but I still train it 1-2x a week. I'll always do at least 1 session, but I feel like I can just use my strength to get into many positions without using much skill. I'm not a big fan of this.

I am much more interested in refined technique so that is why I love Gi much more.
 
Oak said:
This thread is win in so many ways!

I learned that even at 30 years old I am still a teenager!

I'm not a big fan of no-gi myself, but I still train it 1-2x a week. I'll always do at least 1 session, but I feel like I can just use my strength to get into many positions without using much skill. I'm not a big fan of this.

I am much more interested in refined technique so that is why I love Gi much more.
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You must be one huge guy training with small people then.
 
bnosam said:
You must be one huge guy training with small people then.
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I'm not huge but strength plus speed, and sweaty slippery people allows you to get away with many things you would not if you had the gi.
 
BJJ Beginner said:
And finally, while I agree that the gi makes your escapes more precise, I think no-gi is better for refining your control because you have less to work with and are therefore forced to perfect your body positioning and use of gi-less grips.
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I have trained 15 years now, in a GI for about 70% of that time.

The body positioning and GI less grips you speak about, I forced my self to practice, in a GI. I hated NO-GI the first couple of years I trained. I was too old even then to scramble trying to wrestle and scramble like greased pigs. It sucked!

But I practiced in the GI with friction. Then as I trained more with out the GI I had some forethought as to the purpose of positioning and controlling the movement of my opponents hips with weight and not grips.

No real pearls of wisdom coming from me here, but coming from being a Basketball player, that is the process it took for me.

I can now roll NO-GI and control a pace that suits me. About the only difference now is that without the GI I feel a bit younger because of the ease of movement.

Funny thing is my GI game is less and less dependent on GI grips, and more on transitions and positioning. Basics that would work on a beach or in a snow storm.

Nice thread, CashBill.
 
newerest said:
the gi obviously isn't useless. when I get older and lose strength and athletic ability, honestly I'll probably start really training in a gi. the only really advantage I see of the gi is that it makes it more technical - not to say no-gi isn't technical, it just lends itself to more explosive movements like yanking arms out of arm bars.
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Cash Bill 52 said:
Also, I think Newerest is calling Jag old...
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HEY!!!

I'm not weak and I'm still sort of athletic!

:icon_chee

I just don't like nogi...that's all.
 
Cash Bill 52 said:
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. At our school(s) we have people who share a similar opinion. Jake Shields never wears a gi. Caio Terra (no gi world champ) believes strongly in the gi. I like the fact that we have an environment where different ideas are respected.
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As do I. For what it's worth, Cesar has always been one of my favorite members of the Gracie family and his school is high on my list of places I'd love to train at.
 
If I ever find myself up there I would definitely love to check out Cesar's gym... for a gi class haha
 
newerest said:
I mean, I really hate to be the dick that says this, but what if I take off my shirt in a fight? how could training in a gi possibly help me defend then, against the clothing grabbing.

I don't understand how the gi makes people better no-gi. I guess it helps you get the reps in and makes your hips fucking mobile as hell (the grips in the gi will definitely allow you a better chance to work shit like spider guard and open guard game) but outside of that I just don't see how it's applicable to no-gi. it seems like when your whole system of submissions is based around setting up mistakes with colar chokes, or having a sleeve to hang onto, that when you do no-gi those tendancies will not be there to use.

the gi obviously isn't useless. when I get older and lose strength and athletic ability, honestly I'll probably start really training in a gi. the only really advantage I see of the gi is that it makes it more technical - not to say no-gi isn't technical, it just lends itself to more explosive movements like yanking arms out of arm bars.

I'll pose this hypothetical situation, say Grappler A has done no gi the whole time he's been training and Grappler B has done gi the whole time he's been training. they're both equal skill for their sports.

in a no gi situation grappler A is able to pull his arm out of grappler B's arm bar attempt, sensing it coming

in a gi sitatuon grappler A is NOT able to pull his arm out, and has to tap

does this make grappler b a better grappler? or does it just mean that the gi allows less mistakes? I think the latter.
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I think the gi makes your no-gi game better in a number of ways. It makes your submission defense much better, as you cannot just rip out of subs. If you can escape an armbar while you are secured with a 2on1 sleeve grip, your defense is solid. You guessed this yourself.

It also raises situational awareness, as there are so many areas of threat when gi grips are present. Guard passing is a dangerous game with all of the grips available. It also makes a world of difference in terms of posture. Again, if you can maintain posture in spite of deep lapel grips, your posture is bound to be excellent in no-gi. Same for your base. If you can fight off the sweeps from grip-oriented guards (spider, DLR, Pe De Pano, Classica sweep, etc), you will be hell on wheels in top position in no-gi. You'll feel like a great batter after he's removed the doughnut off the bat. Fast!

On the other hand, training gi exclusively can have a deliterious effect - it can often make a player guard-lazy and grip reliant. Some people may have a hard time dealing with the speed and scrambles present in no-gi. Plus, you really have to consciously develop different variations of your sweep/sub setups using tighter upper-body control and over/underhook strategies.

As for me, I train about 60% gi, 40% no-gi. I prefer the gi but really enjoy no-gi. It's like preferring a good tenderloin filet but also loving a Big Mac!
 
Jagcorps_esq said:
I totally agree. The reason I know it is true is that I hate nogi passionately. I hate the nakedness of not having well defined grips and only training can make it so that I don't feel that same panic in a situation where I don't have a nice parka to hold onto.
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Did you start with the gi?

I started no-gi and it was the opposite for me. I felt like I was being smothered in the gi, and that at any second I was gonna have some crazy collar choke put on me. Obviously I'm better at the gi now.

With no-gi even though I don't have grips, I know I have enough no-gi chokes and leglocks to threaten people. I feel like I can at least get out of most bad situations. Of course that's because you don't need to be as technical to escape positions. Tonight I would have gotten armlock'd several times, but the mat combined with no AC made it a virtual slip n' slide. I got away with a lot of lazy techniques tonight.
 
just totally awesome. hail cesar!
 
platfox said:
Only? Making you more technical isn't enough?
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See, I think the reason why the gi is more technical is because of the grips and all the situations they can impose, at a core level. of course this is a simplification of sorts but it is in a way the truth.

so with my theory, the reason why gi bjj is more technical is because the gi requires more techniques necessary to defend against everything present with the gi. The gi game offense always has you using the grips. take away the gi - you take away techniques.

This is where I come with my conclusion - if you are a greco roman wrestler do you train with the gi to become a better greco roman wrestler? I don't think they do.

I didn't mean to say old guys do the gi or anything - i know it's not like that. I just rather do no gi for the moment, haha.
 
We train with the gi 5 days a week and 2 days no gi during our Vale-Tudo training.

The only difference is the grips. Instead of the collar and sleeve we go to the head and arm control. For the two on one control we go to wrist and elbow control. The rest is pretty much the same.
 
i love the gi but nogi can be alot of fun and a good cardio workout, im livin in socal so who knows if some jerk is gonna try to grab me on the beach, maybe i snaked his wave or sumthin, nut i def should train nogi a little more, nice post once again ts
 
I can't say I have an educated (have yet to train), but nogi seems more practical for mma and gi seems more practical for self defense.
 
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