TMA's in U.S. Military Training

[Southland]

There is no need for guessing, almost all information is available, legally or illegally in our socoety.

Tan belt 27.5 hours
Gray belt 24 hours
Green belt 25 hours
Brown belt 33 hours
Black belt 40 hours
Degrees are extra and mostly for instructors or officers.

It is basically a government mc dojo.

So your telling me that they only have 27.5 hours (I believe this is the minimum that is necessary) of hand to hand combat? My surprise comes in response to the mystique of Americans about the Marines in hand to hand combat.

Even if they were all black belts (and it is my understanding tan is the only required and therefore they are not), you add all of these hours up, then there is no way for them to be able to be as experienced and efficient as just an average joe mms fighter who trains at a good gym.

It could take an average of 2 years (give or take) for someone to even get a Blue Belt in BJJ compared to what amounts to a week (hours wise) worth of work to get a Black Belt in this?

Am I missing something? (if you are military I am not ragging on you and have respect for what you do)

 

[Cyclone Mike]

You're not missing anything. It's like I said... hand to hand combat is not a priority. The mystique is that they are a bad ass fighting force... which they are. Just not unarmed.

If you teach a guy a little and he goes against a guy who knows nothing... he will win. They're taught the minimum amount to be effective against other guys with minimal training... not people who do this shit 5x a week for years. They aren't training to fight MMA fighters in the Hindu Kush. They are training to shoot/blow up bad guys.

 

[devante]

I've sparred with marines before. They are strong as fuck and mean... but not particularly skilled. They always seem to be really new, I've never met a marine that stuck with combat sports a long time and became really skilled. I know they exist, I just haven't met any.

This will eventually go back to the old TMA argument of... well if they werent held back by rules, they would just gouge your eyes out and kill you.

Anyway... point is... marines have to be good at A LOT of shit to be effective downrange. Hand to hand combat is not a high priority for them. It shows... but that's OK because they are badass and absolutely effective at their jobs.

this is mostly true, funny thing is i have had the experience of most military people i know having training prior to or continuing after; a mma gym i used to go to, the majority of guys training/fighting were marines or national guard or army (current/fmr). Alot of military people i have dealt w/were or currently a part of the military wrestling team..pankration/mma team...boxing team.

my dad is a blkbelt in judo/tkd, during his time in military, when he was stationed in korea.. alot of military guys i know come from military families and got into martial arts prior to joining up, wrestling kyokushin boxing judo kickboxing kenpo tkd shotokan jkd catch wrestling shui jiao etc etc.

thats just my experience though-hell saamag is ex military and he trained before and after an was more than capable of handling himself.

i know there are miltary types who don't have skills, unfortunately for me i ain't ever met those dudes..younger guys or older guys; majority if not all where more than competent martial artist.

i prob know the exceptions to the rule

 

[Southland]

How would you explain the continued existence of ineffective techniques being taught to the soldiers? Is it because there are many still living in the dark ages and affected by the mystique surrounding certain styles of fighting that are ultimately ineffective against resisting opponents and or not the best techniques that could be used? I'd appreciate hearing some different ideas on this.

 

[nomilkforsanta]

So your telling me that they only have 27.5 hours (I believe this is the minimum that is necessary) of hand to hand combat? My surprise comes in response to the mystique of Americans about the Marines in hand to hand combat.

Even if they were all black belts (and it is my understanding tan is the only required and therefore they are not), you add all of these hours up, then there is no way for them to be able to be as experienced and efficient as just an average joe mms fighter who trains at a good gym.

It could take an average of 2 years (give or take) for someone to even get a Blue Belt in BJJ compared to what amounts to a week (hours wise) worth of work to get a Black Belt in this?

Am I missing something? (if you are military I am not ragging on you and have respect for what you do)

Hand to hand combat is very unimportant for non-close quarter combat operators. If you are a marine and are fighting with your fists, you fucked up...big time.

There are requirements for officers to get black belt degrees to advance in their career. I am not in the military, however, I have trained with many in the past. Most suck, however, many train very hard during their off time. for example, most large naval ships have BJJ classes with nice mats and everything.

 

[Southland]

nomilkforsanta,

Thanks for your response. I am just wanting to make sure that I was understanding everything correctly. Again, I am not and would never take away from the great overall training for what they do. Not everyone can do that and props to them. However, the idea that they can come home with just there hand to hand combat education and claim to be able to destroy the guy who just fights "for sport" (trains MMA every week for years).

Again, if anyone is reading this that has knowledge of how thorough the combat training is for the average solider, please chime in.

 

[SanShou01]

However, the idea that they can come home with just there hand to hand combat education and claim to be able to destroy the guy who just fights "for sport" (trains MMA every week for years).

It's usually not themselves who claims this, it's usually the male cheerleaders (aka non-fighting TMA's and SD's death strikers) that claims this for them....and the soldiers don't bother correcting them because it sounds cool, so why not?

But the average soldier will know their capabilities and true limits. Some soldiers however do train extra in the service and they have their own MMA fighting tournaments, etc. Most do it because it's fun and especially when there aren't many (to any) whorehouses in strict Islamic countries and not much else to do. That's why many also trains in MMA gyms after their service.

 

[DCSpartan]

Southland, just go to Jacksonville NC and go to any of the bars that cater to Marines and find out how you stack up against them. Hopefully you wont find a guy that has been doing boxing and judo longer than you and is just looking for someone to cripple for life.

Or, even more likely, you pick a fight with one and then his buddies join in and they boot stomp you until you are crippled for life.

Warfare isnt dueling. Hope you dont find that out.

 

[NAKMUAY18]

Southland, just go to Jacksonville NC and go to any of the bars that cater to Marines and find out how you stack up against them. Hopefully you wont find a guy that has been doing boxing and judo longer than you and is just looking for someone to cripple for life.

Or, even more likely, you pick a fight with one and then his buddies join in and they boot stomp you until you are crippled for life.

Warfare isnt dueling. Hope you dont find that out.

I've never blocked a poster before but I'm thinking about it. Every single one of your posts I've seen so far is verbal diarrhea. You present bullshit opinions as facts and have some need to justify your own McDojo training.

 

[nomilkforsanta]

Southland, just go to Jacksonville NC and go to any of the bars that cater to Marines and find out how you stack up against them. Hopefully you wont find a guy that has been doing boxing and judo longer than you and is just looking for someone to cripple for life.

Or, even more likely, you pick a fight with one and then his buddies join in and they boot stomp you until you are crippled for life.

Warfare isnt dueling. Hope you dont find that out.

 

[SanShou01]

Southland, just go to Jacksonville NC and go to any of the bars that cater to Marines and find out how you stack up against them. Hopefully you wont find a guy that has been doing boxing and judo longer than you and is just looking for someone to cripple for life.

Or, even more likely, you pick a fight with one and then his buddies join in and they boot stomp you until you are crippled for life.

Warfare isnt dueling. Hope you dont find that out.

You're noobie little nutgrabbing, pretend fighter. There are many Marines, Rangers, etc. in MMA gyms. You must be in love with with dudes in uniform or something to think so highly of them. You're like a Marine's male cheerleader. You have no idea what fighting is about.

 

[DCSpartan]

You're noobie little nutgrabbing, pretend fighter. There are many Marines, Rangers, etc. in MMA gyms. You must be in love with with dudes in uniform or something to think so highly of them. You're like a Marine's male cheerleader. You have no idea what fighting is about.

4 Middle east tours.

200+ Direct Action engagements.

I do think highly of my comrades.

Never once had to pull 50/50 guard on a Taliban though.

I like your nerd rage though.

 

[DCSpartan]

I've never blocked a poster before but I'm thinking about it. Every single one of your posts I've seen so far is verbal diarrhea. You present bullshit opinions as facts and have some need to justify your own McDojo training.

If the OP goes down to Jacksonville and picks a fight with one Marine, other Marines will join in and kick his ass. That's a fact. Fuck you if you think real world fighting is like your muay thai 7pm class. lmao.

 

[Protectandserve]

If the OP goes down to Jacksonville and picks a fight with one Marine, other Marines will join in and kick his ass. That's a fact. Fuck you if you think real world fighting is like your muay thai 7pm class. lmao.

I've had to explain to other cops that drunken bar brawls is like a military pastime. Go out with your platoon, get hammered and fight random people or other branch members. Usually no hard feelings afterwards. And it is good platoon bonding time.

As far as TS originally question, the old military FM's(field manuals) had a lot of crazy TMA stuff. That has all been removed for both the Marines and Army though.

 

[DCSpartan]

I've had to explain to other cops that drunken bar brawls is like a military pastime. Go out with your platoon, get hammered and fight random people or other branch members. Usually no hard feelings afterwards. And it is good platoon bonding time.

You mean it doesnt go down like in a Steven Seagal movie?

 

[SanShou01]

4 Middle east tours.

200+ Direct Action engagements.

We're not in Afghanistan any longer Gumpy.

I do think highly of my comrades.

Really, is that why you implied that your ilk would gang up and jump one guy should he come into your bar and pick a fight?

Never once had to pull 50/50 guard on a Taliban though.

I like your nerd rage though.

Are you in the Washington DC area? Wanna spar?

 

[SanShou01]

If the OP goes down to Jacksonville and picks a fight with one Marine, other Marines will join in and kick his ass. That's a fact. Fuck you if you think real world fighting is like your muay thai 7pm class. lmao.

You're a pussy then, who needs to gang up on one guy because you fight like a little bitch. This is you, right cupcake?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9mL5DKjnkY

 

[MarcoW]

Lol noobs have no honor right words

 

[DCSpartan]

Are you in the Washington DC area? Wanna spar?

Friday nights 6:30 Silverback Academy.

You can fight as many people as you want. Most of them do Krav and MT. See you there.

 

[SanShou01]

Friday nights 6:30 Silverback Academy.

You can fight as many people as you want. Most of them do Krav and MT. See you there.

Chantilly is close to me. I just want to spar you. Why are you trying to pass this on to other people. We can get a video of this for Sherdog. Just friendly sparring, you do spar don't you? Stop being a pussy.