News Titanic Tours Submersible missing in atlantic ocean

[Nigelbro]

Exactly. And that's why it shouldn't be hard, or expensive, for regulations to be enforced on the companies in North America with the means to offer such deep sea tourist expeditions to the Titanic.

For other international corporations I can imagine it being more difficult.

But as for those investigations, the civil and criminal consequences will be used to set an example that no company would want to risk it happening to them.

Can’t disagree with that.

 

[ralphc1]

Remember, the Glomar Explorer almost raised a Russian submarine from 16,500 feet deep. The US was able to pinpoint the location by using Sonar buoys that heard the pressure hull breaking in 1968. They did retrieve some of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer

 

[GearSolidMetal]

What?!

https://www.technology.org/2018/09/...ply;,claim immunity from the laws of the land.

"Is murder legal in international waters?
Put simply; no, murder is not legal in international waters. You can not kill someone in international waters and claim immunity from the laws of the land. Despite international waters appearing as if it is some anarchic place where criminal elements go to do their dirty job, such as slavery, murder, illegal experiments and even, possibly, drug manufacturing, you must comply with the law of the country where your boat is registered."

 

[Sara]

https://www.technology.org/2018/09/09/can-you-really-commit-crimes-in-the-international-waters-and-get-away-with-it/#:~:text=Is murder legal in international waters? Put simply;,claim immunity from the laws of the land.

"Is murder legal in international waters?
Put simply; no, murder is not legal in international waters. You can not kill someone in international waters and claim immunity from the laws of the land. Despite international waters appearing as if it is some anarchic place where criminal elements go to do their dirty job, such as slavery, murder, illegal experiments and even, possibly, drug manufacturing, you must comply with the law of the country where your boat is registered."

Well there goes perfect murder idea #1


Does anyone remember the tv movie about I guy that killed his mistress at sea? Stuffed her in a cooler tried to sink it? I think he tried to claim international waters or something?

 

[cooks1]

The exterior is supposed to be incompressible. So I'm not sure what you mean. The interior wouldn't be affected.

When divers go deep enough or stay down long enough at a certain depth, they can not just swim back up to the surface. They have to make decompression stops at specific depths for specific time periods depending on how deep they went and for how long. Sickness and/or death await otherwise.

I don't have any idea how this works in a submersible. Maybe they could just come straight up and open the hatch. It would depend on whether all the air they are breathing is kept at normal pressure like an airplane, or whether it might be compressed air like from a scuba tank.

 

[13Seconds]

I wonder if anyone down there has a watch? Phones will have run out of battery, and if you're in a pitch black freezing-cold tube with no means of telling how long you've been down there... I can imagine that's another terrifying thing to add on. You wouldn't even know if you were truly still alive with no cues for day/night

Im curious if they documented their final hours with a camera

 

[Thrawn33]

Ok... and in this circumstance was it a mega yacht or cruise ship that transported the submarine to the area to be dropped?

(By the way, I'm not trying to start an argument, just having a polite discussion)



Well yeah, so they're not subject to the states, or territory's laws.

But at the same time, its not like someone can commit murder on a yacht in international waters and expect to not be tried for murder.

All good Brother.

Right now we're talking an activity not recognized as a crime in international waters (a submersible for hire that doesn't meet safety regulations...) for the record I don't know what regs apply in this country to operate within its territorial waters Flagged as US vessl.

There are things recognized under international law that even when committed on the high seas (international waters) are a crime no matter the what the flag the vessel flies. Piracy, human smuggling, crimes against humanity and murder are illegal anywhere. This one ain't, and unless there is a law on the books for a US Flagged vessels (if it is us Flagged) to not do the activity even in international waters, criminally they should not be liable. Civilly they might not be either...

Maritime jurisdiction is a very complicated subject, some of which I can and will speak on, some of which I won't due to me not being a sea lawyer

 

[GearSolidMetal]

It's bad but im praying for a rescue. There's always hope.

Don't get your hopes up too high.

Haven't even heard confirmation they have deep-sea submarines in the area yet.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

https://www.technology.org/2018/09/09/can-you-really-commit-crimes-in-the-international-waters-and-get-away-with-it/#:~:text=Is murder legal in international waters? Put simply;,claim immunity from the laws of the land.

"Is murder legal in international waters?
Put simply; no, murder is not legal in international waters. You can not kill someone in international waters and claim immunity from the laws of the land. Despite international waters appearing as if it is some anarchic place where criminal elements go to do their dirty job, such as slavery, murder, illegal experiments and even, possibly, drug manufacturing, you must comply with the law of the country where your boat is registered."

What if your boat isn't registered?

 

[RollSonnenRoll]

Well there goes perfect murder idea #1


Does anyone remember the tv movie about I guy that killed his mistress at sea? Stuffed her in a cooler tried to sink it? I think he tried to claim international waters or something?

Buried Alive!

I think that's actually part 2 with a gender swap of a wife burying her cheating husband and mistress in his boat. The first one is a husband burying his cheating wife alive.

 

[Sara]

Buried Alive!

I think that's actually part 2 with a gender swap of a wife burying her cheating husband and mistress in his boat. The first one is a husband burying his cheating wife alive.

Is it based on true events? I want I say the guy I’m talking about is Thomas Copano? Or something

 

[RollSonnenRoll]

Is it based on true events? I want I say the guy I’m talking about is Thomas Copano? Or something

Couldn't tell you that. I just remember sci-fi used to show it all the time

 

[13Seconds]

Don't get your hopes up too high.

Haven't even heard confirmation they have deep-sea submarines in the area yet.

Yeah. Pinpointing the location is a difficult thing to do.

If they are not recovered i really hope the thing imploded and they were insta-killed.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Yeah. Pinpointing the location is a difficult thing to do.

If they are not recovered i really hope the thing imploded and they were insta-killed.

In an interview with a submarine captain posted a few pages back mentioned even if the submarine somehow was caught on something it wouldn't explain why their communications would be down.

I'm leaning toward it imploding. Although the sub is supposedly safe to the depth of 4000 meters, and the Titanic wreckage is at 3800 meters.



And others have mentioned this 'tourist expedition' has been performed eight times, to a few dozen times, previously in this same sub.... so many things could have still gone wrong.

I'm a trained metallurgist, mostly related to welding, and I can testify that micro-cracks can form and be impossible to detect with the naked eye.

The Titanic wreck's depth is 3800 meters, and the water pressure is measured as '400 atmospheres.' I vaguely recall from the late 90s that's 2400 pounds per cubic inch.

That amount of pressure could cause a micro-crack to expand rapidly. The scary aspect about manned deep sea submarines is there's no way microcracks can be detected before 'the plunge' into the depths.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any grasp of how the decompression process would work for a situation like this assuming the find the vessel at the bottom and can bring it up. They would have been sitting at 13000 feet for 3 days. I don't have any idea how that would work. But I'm assuming they could not just come straight up and open the thing.

I'm no groundhog expert, but since they are running out of air I would assume they'd bring them up as quickly as possible, giving everyone a horrible case of the bends, but then they'll have a boat with a decompression chamber onboard and they'll immediately throw everyone inside that, and hope they don't die before they make it inside.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Saw this on twitter -

 

[Doughie99]

And they estimated 90ish hours right?

supposedly 96hours with 5 people on board. If one or more people has already died, then the remaining O2 will last the remaining people longer, obviously.

But that's just an estimate. Different people consume O2 at different rates.
I do hope they have a CO2 scrubber on board, which removes carbon-dioxide from the air.
But given how cheapskate this company is, I doubt they even put a CO2 scrubber on-board. Standard equipment for spacecraft, submarines etc.

The more i read about OceanGate's philosophy the more I think this sub was built and designed 'on-the-cheap' with minimal adherence to safety-first. I hope the company gets shut-down after this incident. Looks like the CEO will be one of the casualties, he is on the sub.

 

[Doughie99]

When divers go deep enough or stay down long enough at a certain depth, they can not just swim back up to the surface. They have to make decompression stops at specific depths for specific time periods depending on how deep they went and for how long. Sickness and/or death await otherwise.

I don't have any idea how this works in a submersible. Maybe they could just come straight up and open the hatch. It would depend on whether all the air they are breathing is kept at normal pressure like an airplane, or whether it might be compressed air like from a scuba tank.

it's fully pressurized so .....should be no issues with decompression. I'm not a diver but I have some friends who are and I'm pretty certain that there's no need to have the occupants in a decompression chamber as their bodies are not subjected to increased pressure at any point in the dive (well...unless there's a catastrophic failure.....)

 

[13Seconds]

In an interview with a submarine captain posted a few pages back mentioned even if the submarine somehow was caught on something it wouldn't explain why their communications would be down.

I'm leaning toward it imploding. Although the sub is supposedly safe to the depth of 4000 meters, and the Titanic wreckage is at 3800 meters.



And others have mentioned this 'tourist expedition' has been performed eight times, to a few dozen times, previously in this same sub.... so many things could have still gone wrong.

I'm a trained metallurgist, mostly related to welding, and I can testify that micro-cracks can form and be impossible to detect with the naked eye.

The Titanic wreck's depth is 3800 meters, and the water pressure is measured as '400 atmospheres.' I vaguely recall from the late 90s that's 2400 pounds per cubic inch.

That amount of pressure could cause a micro-crack to expand rapidly. The scary aspect about manned deep sea submarines is there's no way microcracks can be detected before 'the plunge' into the depths.

I was thinking the same thing as it makes the most sense. But then there's the banging noises.

 

[13Seconds]

supposedly 96hours with 5 people on board. If one or more people has already died, then the remaining O2 will last the remaining people longer, obviously.

But that's just an estimate. Different people consume O2 at different rates.
I do hope they have a CO2 scrubber on board, which removes carbon-dioxide from the air.
But given how cheapskate this company is, I doubt they even put a CO2 scrubber on-board. Standard equipment for spacecraft, submarines etc.

The more i read about OceansGate's philosophy the more i think this sub was built and designed 'on-the-cheap' with minimal adherence to safety-first. I hope the company gets shut-down after this incident. Looks like the CEO will be one of the casualties, he is on the sub.

So at what point do you start considering killing one person for more air in this situation?