Thoughts on running as an MMA fighter?

[elwani]

1) Congratulations, you're a google trainer. I've been in the mountain biking world for almost 30 years and my wife was a pretty good swimmer. Either one of us can peg our heart rates at well over 150 for hours. It's not hard.

2) Well you should've said so then shouldn't you? But you didn't because you don't know shit.

3) 220-age is a shitty outdated way of calculating max heart rate, no one who's training seriously uses it. I'm over 40 and my heart rates still maxes out north of 190. Any half serious athlete will do a lactate threshold test to set their training zones. Once you know the LT you set the heart rates for each training zone, and once you've done that you know the pacing required for each zone. Given that your pacing is fairly close to mine, we can infer that your fitness is in the same ballpark as myself. 140bpm is zone 3 which is tempo pace. There's a purpose for it in a structured training program but when you're running in zone 3 all the time it's garbage miles and results in hitting a plateau.

Next, all endurance athletes along with those who are looking to build cardio have structured variances in their training intensity levels. We have easy days where we train at under 70% of LT, bunch of base miles at 70-85% of LT, some tempo miles at 85-95% of LT, and finally some max LT and anaerobic sessions. How much of each you do depends on where you are in your training blocks, but there is no program on Earth where the majority of your time is spent at zone 3 tempo pace. The fact that you think running all the time at "75% of max HR" is actually good training shows that you're a fucking idiot. Even high school kids don't do that when training for track or XC running.

4) Boxing is arguably a more aerobic sport than MMA, but even in MMA the better gyms have figured it out as well. They do not run tempo pace all the time like you did, it generally flips between active recovery/base miles and high intensity threshold training.

Finally, lol at calling me a moron when you've just shown that you know nothing about training. You should be thanking me for dropping all this knowledge on you. You're welcome. Asshat.

I’d love to hear all this translated into simple language, seriously.

 

[Twc]

@GoatArtemLobov have you tried rowing for distance? Not saying that drilling techniques for an hour isn't better but rowing for distance will be better than running distance and is easy on your legs. Rowing also works out the whole body.

Rowing long distances build up your aerobic base then you can also do intervals to work on the anaerobic system. It is pretty much as low impact on your joints as swimming. There were cases of competitive rowers joining other sports (mainly cycling) when they retired and performing very well for newcomers.

 

[spannered]

I'm pretty O. The fence about running. I used to run 3.5kms every other day while I was training. I used to swim 1km once or twice a week.

The aerobic cardio translates, but you have to weigh up the cost. I had a bad MCL tear in my early twenties, and a significant lower back injury and now a bad hip. I only run 2km a few times a week now.

There were guys I trained with who ran 25km+ a week and we're gassed after 4 minutes of wrestling. Conversely, there was a work horse in the gym who had bad knees and never ran, and he can grapple for 40 minutes straight with fresh opponents.

S&C has its place, but doing the thing you are trying to be proficient at is the most imperative part. I've seen boxers gas in 3x3min kickboxing sparring sessions because they just weren't conditioned for kicking. I've seen wrestlers throwing punches like they were underwater in the same rounds, but can double leg for days.

Supplementation is fine, but you have to weigh up if the wear on your body is worth it for you. You absolutely do not have to run to be a conditioned MMArtist. You have to do MMA.

 

[aerius]

I’d love to hear all this translated into simple language, seriously.

It begins with figuring out what kind of cardio a fighter needs for his style, a grinding wrestler like Jon Fitch is going to have different requirements than an explosive one like Romero, and we need to be realistic with what they have and where we can get them. Same thing with BJJ guys and strikers, they all have different styles & energy system needs so there's no universal training program.

Let's use Romero since we all know his style, strengths, and issues. Romero depends a lot on his insane explosiveness and short all-out efforts, so what we'd want to do with him is build a training program for him that reduces his recovery time between explosions and increases how many hard efforts he can put out in a fight. We're not going to try and train him into a cardio machine like Holloway since trying to do that would take away his explosiveness and mess up his style. We do this by having almost all his cardio training be either really easy sessions where he can recover from his MMA skill training and other stuff or high intensity interval training sessions where we're maxing him out on intensity. This gives him enough time to recover from all his training, and it optimizes his full out burst & recover style while giving him a reasonable cruise along pace in between bursts.

Someone like Holloway who works at a high consistent pace but doesn't use the big explosions is going to train differently, putting him on the Romero program would actually make him gas out at his preferred pace. In his case we'd test and see where his lactate threshold is (transition from aerobic to anaerobic in layman's terms) and build a program where he has a bunch of hours at a nice all-day pace along with a good amount of training right around his LT. And we add an occasional max effort session so he doesn't stagnate.

Putting some numbers to it, let's say both of them have a lactate threshold of 180bpm. Romero's going to do most of his cardio at less than 70% of that number with 1 or possibly 2 sessions a week where he's maxed out at well over 100%. Holloway will have a bunch of time at 70-80% and another good chunk at just under and over 100%, with the occasional interval session where we max him out at well over 100%.

The hard part is fitting everything together, because we also need to account for the training loads from the skill training that fighters do. Hitting the pads, sparring rounds, wrestling & grappling drills, and all that other stuff they do also counts towards cardio training, and we need to schedule everything properly so that fighters don't get over-trained.

And finally, we come back to fighting style again and where running fits into things. If we're to broadly generalize, running is more important for strikers since they depend more on active footwork and need more muscular endurance in their legs so they can stay light on their feet and keep moving for an entire fight (yes, that means you Conor). For a pure grappler like Demian Maia, he can do his cardio however he wants since his style isn't very footwork dependent.

This is of course the super simple version to give a general idea of how things work. Don't take any of the numbers for gospel because they're just ballpark figures to give an intro level view of the topic.

 

[elwani]

It begins with figuring out what kind of cardio a fighter needs for his style, a grinding wrestler like Jon Fitch is going to have different requirements than an explosive one like Romero, and we need to be realistic with what they have and where we can get them. Same thing with BJJ guys and strikers, they all have different styles & energy system needs so there's no universal training program.

Let's use Romero since we all know his style, strengths, and issues. Romero depends a lot on his insane explosiveness and short all-out efforts, so what we'd want to do with him is build a training program for him that reduces his recovery time between explosions and increases how many hard efforts he can put out in a fight. We're not going to try and train him into a cardio machine like Holloway since trying to do that would take away his explosiveness and mess up his style. We do this by having almost all his cardio training be either really easy sessions where he can recover from his MMA skill training and other stuff or high intensity interval training sessions where we're maxing him out on intensity. This gives him enough time to recover from all his training, and it optimizes his full out burst & recover style while giving him a reasonable cruise along pace in between bursts.

Someone like Holloway who works at a high consistent pace but doesn't use the big explosions is going to train differently, putting him on the Romero program would actually make him gas out at his preferred pace. In his case we'd test and see where his lactate threshold is (transition from aerobic to anaerobic in layman's terms) and build a program where he has a bunch of hours at a nice all-day pace along with a good amount of training right around his LT. And we add an occasional max effort session so he doesn't stagnate.

Putting some numbers to it, let's say both of them have a lactate threshold of 180bpm. Romero's going to do most of his cardio at less than 70% of that number with 1 or possibly 2 sessions a week where he's maxed out at well over 100%. Holloway will have a bunch of time at 70-80% and another good chunk at just under and over 100%, with the occasional interval session where we max him out at well over 100%.

The hard part is fitting everything together, because we also need to account for the training loads from the skill training that fighters do. Hitting the pads, sparring rounds, wrestling & grappling drills, and all that other stuff they do also counts towards cardio training, and we need to schedule everything properly so that fighters don't get over-trained.

And finally, we come back to fighting style again and where running fits into things. If we're to broadly generalize, running is more important for strikers since they depend more on active footwork and need more muscular endurance in their legs so they can stay light on their feet and keep moving for an entire fight (yes, that means you Conor). For a pure grappler like Demian Maia, he can do his cardio however he wants since his style isn't very footwork dependent.

This is of course the super simple version to give a general idea of how things work. Don't take any of the numbers for gospel because they're just ballpark figures to give an intro level view of the topic.

Thanks, I do sincerely appreciate it when anyone takes the time to truly explain their technical experience.

 

[Boomb]

Running is not only for cardio. Boxers run to condition their legs.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Yeah but America is still by far the leading nation in MMA, so maybe they aren't that wrong...
Brazilians run even less I believe, and are the second nation.

I doubt that one can talk about a "leading nation" in MMA. Biggest promotions are american so they recrute american fighters.

In other combat sports where recrutement is not as american-centric, America is #2 at best like in freestyle wrestling, bottom top5 like in boxing or non existent like in judo.

BTW I think that the disdain for aerobic cardio in Murrca is due to the NFL worship, where it is all anaerobic / explosive.

 

[Stuart0502]

Valtellini is pulling facts out of his ass. Kickboxing predominantly uses the aerobic, not anaerobic system.