Thoughts on running as an MMA fighter?

Mayweather was big on running and you have NEVER seen him tired in 50 fights which when you think about it is freaking remarkable, never once has he looked remotely tired even in round 12. He dose also do a lot of bag work and various other stuff though which no doubt helps.

I run on the treadmill with running shoes with good cushioning and never had the slightest niggle with any of my joints, running outside has caused niggling pains in the past but on a treadmill the impact for me is non existent. For me running at 130bpm feels like im not doing anything like i can breath through my nose only, i don't feel like i'm getting a good workout until i'm around 150bpm, i usually push 160+ towards the end of run to finish up. i'm a complete casual runner tho and have no real clue what im doing i just get on and run, i only run a couple of miles every other day just because i feel better for it, i'm more into lifting and trying to get swole which its self has a negative effect on cardio, i just run to stay healthy really.

Boxing is way more of an aerobic sport than MMA, so I guess it makes sense to put the empasize more on running, but even then, I don't hink it is requisite to run as much as Mayweather did.
Mayweather has obviously great cardio but is it running that gave him such great cardio, or would he have been as good if he had replaced a lot of that running by more skipping/heavybag/shadow etc.?
I think he would've been almost as good. Imho, it isn't because one fighter is great that everything he does is what made him great. Ali used to have a guy punch him for 15 minutes non-stop in the head after training sessions in order to "condition his head". Not sure this was very clever, nor do I think this is what made him so great.
 
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Just in order to know, what do you consider "jog" and "run" bro? (as it might differ from one individual to another, for instance 10 miles per hour is fucking running for me while it would be Eliud's Kipchoge morning jog)

No idea. I've never paid any attention to speeds and times.

I just think of it as running is something I can do for an hour without any breaks, jogging I can do for 5+ hours, and walking I can do for as long as I want or until my ruined toes start hurting too much.
 
When i used to box i was encouraged to jog and walk, not run because of pressure on the knees, when i did Muay Thai it was all skipping, but i'm not a pro fighter, the guy at my gym was though and had a brief spell in the UFC Heavyweight division and Bellator, was the BAMMA world HW champ and is a current bare knuckle world champion in Ken Shamrocks promotion.
Not run as in not sprint, really? Sprinting or high interval running is supposed to be much easier on your knees than slow paced jogging
 
Not run as in not sprint, really? Sprinting or high interval running is supposed to be much easier on your knees than slow paced jogging
It is but it doesn't work your aerobic system, it works your anaerobic system
 
It is but it doesn't work your aerobic system, it works your anaerobic system
If you do enough sprints it becomes an aerobic exercise. But like anything else it's still muscle memory, in order to get the kind of cardio that is sustainable over 5 rounds at a normal fight pace jogging is most applicable. Sprinting drills will help you so you wont be so gassed from bursting movements, but really an experienced fighter shouldn't be making too many bursting movements in a fight. An experienced fighter should be more calm and composed
 
I boxed for almost two decades and ran every day twice a day without fail.

There is a reason boxers can fight for 36 minutes (45 in the old days) and still maintain a high output.

It's called fucking cardio training.

The Diaz brothers have insane cardio and they both run marathons regularly for fun.

I wonder why...
 
When I was still in good shape, I would just do different variations of burpees and weight lift...

But that was a long time ago.
 
1) 130-150bpm is dead easy on a bike or in a pool, anyone who isn't a complete noob at either sport or a Fatty Mcfatface can hold that pace all day.

2) VO2 max is a steady state measurement which makes it a poor measure of cardio for MMA. MMA is a burst based sport for the most part rather than steady state activity such as XC skiing or distance running where VO2 max has a much better correlation to performance. It's still a key measure in MMA but more important are lactate threshold & buffering which determine how long an athlete can maintain anaerobic efforts, how fast he can recover from them, and how many of those hard efforts he has in the tank.

3) I don't know what your thresholds are, but when I was in shape my run times were only a bit slower than yours. Running at a constant 140 would put me in the shit zone where I'm neither recovering nor going hard enough to get the full benefits of training. In the endurance world, it's known as "garbage miles", you're racking up the miles but not getting much benefit from it, and you're wearing out your body in the process. The way you're training now gives you the intensity you need to improve cardio and drops the average intensity a bit so you can actually recover.

4) Relating to 3. Any decent boxing gym knows the above, and they will vary the pace of the runs to fit the rest of the training program. They'll do easy runs for warmup & recovery on some days and hard runs on others to build top-end cardio.

TLDR: You trained like a moron caveman and you accidentally found a way to train like less of an idiot. If you had a training program which includes running with proper intensity & duration you'd see even more gains without cutting into the time spent on technical skills.
 
You gotta mix it up. 2 days sprint. 2 days mid distance at a good pace. 1 day long run at a slow pace. Something like this is probably best.

Fighters will tailor their running with their genetic attributes:
I'd say Conor is the type of fighter to primarily focus on sprinting/anerobic type cardio. Max/Nate are the type of fighters to primarily focus on long distance/aerobic at a slow pace. Khabib/Dustin are the type to primarily focus on mid distance, going for a good couple of miles at a decent pace or up a hill, which is good for a combination of both.
 
1) 130-150bpm is dead easy on a bike or in a pool, anyone who isn't a complete noob at either sport or a Fatty Mcfatface can hold that pace all day.

2) VO2 max is a steady state measurement which makes it a poor measure of cardio for MMA. MMA is a burst based sport for the most part rather than steady state activity such as XC skiing or distance running where VO2 max has a much better correlation to performance. It's still a key measure in MMA but more important are lactate threshold & buffering which determine how long an athlete can maintain anaerobic efforts, how fast he can recover from them, and how many of those hard efforts he has in the tank.

3) I don't know what your thresholds are, but when I was in shape my run times were only a bit slower than yours. Running at a constant 140 would put me in the shit zone where I'm neither recovering nor going hard enough to get the full benefits of training. In the endurance world, it's known as "garbage miles", you're racking up the miles but not getting much benefit from it, and you're wearing out your body in the process. The way you're training now gives you the intensity you need to improve cardio and drops the average intensity a bit so you can actually recover.

4) Relating to 3. Any decent boxing gym knows the above, and they will vary the pace of the runs to fit the rest of the training program. They'll do easy runs for warmup & recovery on some days and hard runs on others to build top-end cardio.

TLDR: You trained like a moron caveman and you accidentally found a way to train like less of an idiot. If you had a training program which includes running with proper intensity & duration you'd see even more gains without cutting into the time spent on technical skills.

Lol what a sore loser you are for insulting me when I am proposing a peaceful debate, go get a life bro.
To answer the non-sense you're talking.

1) You clearly never swam for 1 hour non-stop to say that, I shouldn't even answer you after reading this crap
2) I never said V02 max was the only indicator, I said it was 1 indicator (should've written a list with all the possible indicators? lol)
3) "140 BPM are garbage miles". To train your aerobic system, you have to be anywhere between 65% and 80% of your max HR (on the lower end you are exclusively depending on your aerobic system while on the higher end you also depend on your anaerobic system). High level distance runners train at around 75%. Giving the fact your max HR is approximately 220-your age (I was 25 at the time), I was exactly in the good zone at 140.
4) -boxing is more of an aerobic sport than MMA, so I guess it makes more sense to run as a boxer
- more and more guys quit running long distance
- it's not because someone is a great boxer that everything he does is great and that everything he does is what made him great (again, Ali thinking letting someone punching him in the head for 15 minutes was good to "condition his head")

You just proved that you are a ignorant disrespectful moron.
 
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I boxed for almost two decades and ran every day twice a day without fail.

There is a reason boxers can fight for 36 minutes (45 in the old days) and still maintain a high output.

It's called fucking cardio training.

The Diaz brothers have insane cardio and they both run marathons regularly for fun.

I wonder why...
Running undoubtely helped their cardio but who knows I personally think their cardio would've been just as good if they had run less and replaced that training by skill training.
Imagine if Nick had taken half of the time he ran to work on wrestling and kicking, he would've been unstoppable and even better than he was.
There is also a genetic component in their case, they are slow-twitch guys, which is good for cardio obviously but which also explains why they both were so pillowfisted.
It's "easier" to have cardio when you are neither an explosive nor a hard hitting guy.
 
So this is just my 2cents on this topic, would like to know what your opinion is on that.

Running and combat sports have been intertwined for ever. There are good reasons to that. Running develops mental toughness and will, and noone has come up yet with a better way to develop your heart. Numerous studies have shown that distance runners have stronger hearts than cyclists and swimmers.
The reason why is that, in order to develop your aerobic capacity, you need to work for a long time at a moderate pace, with your HR anywhere between 130 and 150 BPM approximately. The thing is that with swimming or cycling, you can't maintain that intensity for very long periods of times, since your muscles will give up before, which is NOT the case for running.
However, running a lot comes at a cost. First of all, even with very good technique, you are taxing your lower body joints, there is just no way around. Second, you aren't spending the time you are running working on your technique, and Lord knows that there is a lot to learn in MMA. We also know that "cardio" in MMA or any other combat sport is more specific cardio than cardio from an anatomical standpoint (Heart rate rest rate, Vo2max, etc. etc.). That's why when you take guys who have the same VO2 max but one has extensive martial arts training while the other hasn't, the one who hasn't will gas out way quicker than the trained guy. So specific cardio is a lot about relaxation, movement economy and efficiency, things that come with technical work.
So wouldn't it be better to sacrifice a bit of "anatomical" cardio by giving up running and taking this time to work on technique in a way that is also challenging? The results might be better in the end.
That's why more and more guys, like Joe Valtellini or Usman (because of his fucked knees) don't run and still have supreme cardio.

Now I want to share my own experience with you.
I used to be a pretty decent runner (37 min 10k, 17.5 5k), so I always had good cardio when I started martial arts, all the more than I kept running for 3 times a week.
But 2 years ago I started replacing more and more of that running by specific cardio (bjj drills, tons of challenging shadowboxing etc. etc. and my cardio has even improved.
So for instance, instead of running for an hour, I start with 30 minutes of shadowboxing (also incorporating kicks, knees, elbows and sprawls), then 30 minutes non-stop drilling bjj moves with a buddy of mine. I always monitor my HR with a chest strap, and I'm usually in the 120-140 range, sometimes peaking to 160-165, sometimes getting down to 110-115. So it is NOT as good of an aerobic workout as running where I am at a constant 140 for an hour, but I improved so much more from a technical standpoint (because of focusing more on technique etc. than just running) that this is largely outweighed by efficiency in movement etc.
Last but not least, my knees and hips have never felt so good, and my flexibility has improved a lot (it is known that running makes you stiff, high-level runners ofter are quite stiff, since it favors movement efficiency).
Bottomline, my Vo2 max might have decreased a bit because I almost don't run anymore but I never felt so fresh when training/sparring. I'm pretty sure I would crush and outcardio a parallel version of myself who would have run instead of doing that type of workouts.


Of course, this is just the experience of an amateur and not high level pros, but still. Of course, as an amateur, I still have tons to learn whereas high level fighters already know it all and thus can focus more on their conditionning (but with that being said, if you look at the UFC roster, there are still a lot of fighters who have big holes in their game)

Would like to hear your thoughts on that sherbros
Nothing new imo. You are good at the things you are doing if done right.

I have good cyclist and boxing endurance but cant run to safe my life. Rope jumping? Pretty decent compared...
 
Running was the best way to get my weight down. Running should never replace training, drilling, sparring, etc., but is good accessory work during fight camp. Towards the end of my camps, I’d run 6 miles, four days a week. But I also did hill sprints and sprint intervals. Nothing crazy, but if I put all that work in my body would be lean and I’d make weight easily.
 
Jogging slow running is very good for the body. Even non fighters should do it at least three days a week. More the better.
 
Running undoubtely helped their cardio but who knows I personally think their cardio would've been just as good if they had run less and replaced that training by skill training.
Imagine if Nick had taken half of the time he ran to work on wrestling and kicking, he would've been unstoppable and even better than he was.
There is also a genetic component in their case, they are slow-twitch guys, which is good for cardio obviously but which also explains why they both were so pillowfisted.
It's "easier" to have cardio when you are neither an explosive nor a hard hitting guy.

And yet in boxing you have guys like Tyson Fury that hit like a truck and can fight 12 rounds easily.

Anyone can train in cardio. A lot of fighters just hate doing it.

I switched from running to a high end elliptical a couple of years ago because my knees were starting to bug me. Spend 45 minutes a day on an elliptical and cardio improves pretty quick.
 
And yet in boxing you have guys like Tyson Fury that hit like a truck and can fight 12 rounds easily.

Anyone can train in cardio. A lot of fighters just hate doing it.
Tyson Fury doesn't hit as a truck for boxing HW standards imho.
I think that you generally have a predisposition for either cardio or power, but obviously you can improve everywhere.
Tyson also doesn't gas because he is an exceptional technician.
Last but not least, Tyson is at such a level of proficiency in his own sport that he can afford to work more on conditioning IMO. But for half of the fighters of the UFC roster who still have big holes in entire parts of the game, wouldn't it be better to work more on technique?
For amateurs like myself (who obviously have even bigger holes), it was nothing short of amazing to work more on the technical aspects of the game.
 
Tyson Fury doesn't hit as a truck for boxing HW standards imho.
I think that you generally have a predisposition for either cardio or power, but obviously you can improve everywhere.
Tyson also doesn't gas because he is an exceptional technician.
Last but not least, Tyson is at such a level of proficiency in his own sport that he can afford to work more on conditioning IMO. But for half of the fighters of the UFC roster who still have big holes in entire parts of the game, wouldn't it be better to work more on technique?
For amateurs like myself (who obviously have even bigger holes), it was nothing short of amazing to work more on the technical aspects of the game.

You raise some fair points but technique improvements while great and a necessary part of training only work if you have the gas tank to use them.

If you look at the narrative for the McGregor - Poirier fight this weekend, the story was, if Dustin could drag Conor into the later rounds where his gas tank failed him his chances would improve. Now obviously this is not how it played out but Conor actually looked tired at the end of the first round.

There is a guy with a great striking technique but horrible cardio. You really don't think an hour a day of road work wouldn't help?
 
So this is just my 2cents on this topic, would like to know what your opinion is on that.

Running and combat sports have been intertwined for ever. There are good reasons to that. Running develops mental toughness and will, and noone has come up yet with a better way to develop your heart. Numerous studies have shown that distance runners have stronger hearts than cyclists and swimmers.
The reason why is that, in order to develop your aerobic capacity, you need to work for a long time at a moderate pace, with your HR anywhere between 130 and 150 BPM approximately. The thing is that with swimming or cycling, you can't maintain that intensity for very long periods of times, since your muscles will give up before, which is NOT the case for running.
However, running a lot comes at a cost. First of all, even with very good technique, you are taxing your lower body joints, there is just no way around. Second, you aren't spending the time you are running working on your technique, and Lord knows that there is a lot to learn in MMA. We also know that "cardio" in MMA or any other combat sport is more specific cardio than cardio from an anatomical standpoint (Heart rate rest rate, Vo2max, etc. etc.). That's why when you take guys who have the same VO2 max but one has extensive martial arts training while the other hasn't, the one who hasn't will gas out way quicker than the trained guy. So specific cardio is a lot about relaxation, movement economy and efficiency, things that come with technical work.
So wouldn't it be better to sacrifice a bit of "anatomical" cardio by giving up running and taking this time to work on technique in a way that is also challenging? The results might be better in the end.
That's why more and more guys, like Joe Valtellini or Usman (because of his fucked knees) don't run and still have supreme cardio.

Now I want to share my own experience with you.
I used to be a pretty decent runner (37 min 10k, 17.5 5k), so I always had good cardio when I started martial arts, all the more than I kept running for 3 times a week.
But 2 years ago I started replacing more and more of that running by specific cardio (bjj drills, tons of challenging shadowboxing etc. etc. and my cardio has even improved.
So for instance, instead of running for an hour, I start with 30 minutes of shadowboxing (also incorporating kicks, knees, elbows and sprawls), then 30 minutes non-stop drilling bjj moves with a buddy of mine. I always monitor my HR with a chest strap, and I'm usually in the 120-140 range, sometimes peaking to 160-165, sometimes getting down to 110-115. So it is NOT as good of an aerobic workout as running where I am at a constant 140 for an hour, but I improved so much more from a technical standpoint (because of focusing more on technique etc. than just running) that this is largely outweighed by efficiency in movement etc.
Last but not least, my knees and hips have never felt so good, and my flexibility has improved a lot (it is known that running makes you stiff, high-level runners ofter are quite stiff, since it favors movement efficiency).
Bottomline, my Vo2 max might have decreased a bit because I almost don't run anymore but I never felt so fresh when training/sparring. I'm pretty sure I would crush and outcardio a parallel version of myself who would have run instead of doing that type of workouts.


Of course, this is just the experience of an amateur and not high level pros, but still. Of course, as an amateur, I still have tons to learn whereas high level fighters already know it all and thus can focus more on their conditionning (but with that being said, if you look at the UFC roster, there are still a lot of fighters who have big holes in their game)

Would like to hear your thoughts on that sherbros

Competitive runners... any distance do extensive interval training or hill running, which adds to the great cardio base a big advantage to push anaerobic ..... American wrestlers do a ton of anaerobic work as well.

I bet your personal progress is still heavily dependent on the long long years of running... That base does not go away slowly and your body has been taught to respond to excercise in a way that other athletes just don't have.

If knees go bad, running has to be replaced with something else... But I think running is a massive advantage in training a body to perform.
 
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