Thoughts on my first BJJ class as a Judo black belt.

[lechien]

And under what rule would the guy being pinned down is the winner? Now I've had both experience where the pinned guy told me to do something and one where the guy pinning me is telling me to try to escape. It works both ways. I think both guys should try to do something.

But I think it is more advantageous for the guy pinning than it is for the pinned guy. In MMA, you be getting ground and pounded and in Judo and wrestling you will be the loser. I don't wtf they do in BJJ but pretty sure the guy pinning you just got a few points for pinning you.

Like I said, it was interesting training.

I was waiting for him to attempt to submit me but he did not try.

To be honest, I was not even fighting the pin...just waiting for the attack...of course I was in BJJ mode.

I do not think I can no longer deprogram myself as I am too old and not interested into judo.

However heaps of judokas come train BJJ with me as I teach from their judo club.

Our BJJ club is reknown for their tachiwaza due to our cross pollination. And our no jumping guard policy.

 

[freaky]

Like I said, it was interesting training.

I was waiting for him to attempt to submit me but he did not try.

To be honest, I was not even fighting the pin...just waiting for the attack...of course I was in BJJ mode.

I do not think I can no longer deprogram myself as I am too old and not interested into judo.

However heaps of judokas come train BJJ with me as I teach from their judo club.

Our BJJ club is reknown for their tachiwaza due to our cross pollination. And our no jumping guard policy.

Should tell him to try to sub you or something. If he refuse then I guess you can try to get out for the sake of training.

 

[lechien]

Should tell him to try to sub you or something. If he refuse then I guess you can try to get out for the sake of training.

Like I said, I was in bjj mode..my apologies as I must have waste his sparring time.

Like said 13 years of BJJ sparring and I cannot switch suddenly to new rules.

 

[Calibur]

Like I said, I was in bjj mode..my apologies as I must have waste his sparring time.

Like said 13 years of BJJ sparring and I cannot switch suddenly to new rules.

Not sure if that excuse would fly in any other sport.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

So far nobody was relaxed when I pin them strongly specially if I put my gi or belly on their faces.. is hard to breath after breathe after 2 minutes you know...

"Relax" doesn't mean lay there limp with your arms at your side. Simply staying calm, utilizing safe hands and frames and waiting for the guy pinning to do something other than "pin".

Unlike Judo or wrestling the fight is not over simply because the shoulders are touching the mat. Hence why the onus is not on the guy on bottom. Thus relaxing, establishing a safe frame or hand position and if FULLY locked down conserving energy until the top guy attacks so that you may safely escape.

 

[rmongler]

I think if you ever plan to do mma, or compete in other grappling codes besides bjj/ibjjf based rulesets, relaxing while on bottom is generally a bad habit to get into.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Like I said, it was interesting training.

I was waiting for him to attempt to submit me but he did not try.

To be honest, I was not even fighting the pin...just waiting for the attack...of course I was in BJJ mode.

I do not think I can no longer deprogram myself as I am too old and not interested into judo.

However heaps of judokas come train BJJ with me as I teach from their judo club.

Our BJJ club is reknown for their tachiwaza due to our cross pollination. And our no jumping guard policy.

Should tell him to try to sub you or something. If he refuse then I guess you can try to get out for the sake of training.

I think the point Iechien is trying to make is that if he is able to breath, has a safe hand position where his limbs are not being broken then why is the initiative on him to do anything ? In his situation is is not in any danger of being grievously injured so there is no great hurry to waste energy. For him the fight is not over simply because his shoulders are touching the mat. Thus it is on the top guy to finish the "fight". This "fight" was not over and victory was not met by the "pin".

But that does not diminish the ability to hold someone down against their will. That is still extremely applicable to self defense and fighting.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Rickson learned from Helio and Helio learned from Maeda. So what's your point? The only difference is that Helio focused more on newaza and of course you are going to focus on something and practice more than something more than the other Judo guys who do about 70% throws and 30% newaza you are going to win.. is just common sense.

and what the heck does this has to what I said?

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Pinning is major tool in every grappling sport, allowing ground work.
Besides the normal pins, there are also the dirty variations, used by seasoned competitors, that will make you want to go home within a few seconds.
As someone said earlier, if the pin feels comfortable, maybe your training partners are too nice with you or just dont know how to hurt you with it.

 

[QingTian]

I think it needs to be emphasized that Judo rules were created for sport purposes, not MMA training. That is why you can win with a pin. Pinning rules push the pace much faster, and creates more opportunities including submissions. If you thought the Judo standup rule was a problem, take away pinning and there will no ground scores besides transitions from throws.

Nevertheless, pinning is an overall grappling skill that does easily translate. It's like gi vs no gi. It's all good training.

 

[Gorbag]

I think it needs to be emphasized that Judo rules were created for sport purposes, not MMA training. That is why you can win with a pin.

Pins are not created in judo primarily for "sport" though. Immobilizing and controlling an opponent on the ground has its origen in koryu ju jutsu, traditional ryu's even had schools spezialised in tying up people, so the samurais obviously concidered those skills important.

 

[QingTian]

Pins are not created in judo primarily for "sport" though. Immobilizing and controlling an opponent on the ground has its origen in koryu ju jutsu, traditional ryu's even had schools spezialised in tying up people, so the samurais obviously concidered those skills important.

You mean koryu pinning people face down, and tying people with rope? I think it's fair to say that didn't influence Judo...

 

[Gorbag]

You mean koryu pinning people face down, and tying people with rope? I think it's fair to say that didn't influence Judo...

Why make pins into kata if it was only for "sport"? Most grappling arts consider pins important due to an origen that precede friendly competitions...

 

[QingTian]

Why make pins into kata if it was only for "sport"? Most grappling arts consider pins important due to an origen that precede friendly competitions...

Most arts preceding friendly competitions weren't grappling, or even striking. They were weapons based.

The point of kata isn't to preserve ancient techniques either. It's to teach Judo principles. Also back in the days before Amazon books and YouTube.

 

[Gorbag]

Most arts preceding friendly competitions weren't grappling, or even striking. They were weapons based.

Well, pins were important obviously, with the exception of BJJ. Immobilization - not only breaking of limbs or chokes - were considered important skills in traditional ju jutsu.

The point of kata isn't to preserve ancient techniques either. It's to teach Judo principles. Also back in the days before Amazon books and YouTube.

It's BOTH, some of the kata elements are kept mostly for historical reasons.

 

[rmongler]

I see katas like lock flows in western wrestling; a mnemonic device to record techniques between generations before easy and wide spread mediums of storing information. Its not really intended for you to literally do a sequence like that in an actual fight.

 

[jack36767]

I think if you ever plan to do mma, or compete in other grappling codes besides bjj/ibjjf based rulesets, relaxing while on bottom is generally a bad habit to get into.

This.. do much this

 

[lechien]

Not sure if that excuse would fly in any other sport.

Happens all the time. Judokas going flat on their belly waiting for a restart during a BJJ roll.

It just takes a while to adjust to a new sparring rules.

 

[QingTian]

Well, pins were important obviously, with the exception of BJJ. Immobilization - not only breaking of limbs or chokes - were considered important skills in traditional ju jutsu.



It's BOTH, some of the kata elements are kept mostly for historical reasons.

Maybe we need a historian to chime in, but traditional jujutsu should be considered in its own microcosm. It was a unique situation where you had an isolationalist regime with total control of its population, and which forbade commoners from carrying weapons.

AFAIK all the Judo kata except Koshiki were new creations. The techniques may have been pulled from various sources but the intent was more a syllabus of principles.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

This video can explain the use of pins.
I have a friend, who practices medieval fencing and recently came back from a festival in Moscow, where they did "Battle of 1000 swords" event. They also use similar tactics- throw, pin and stab...