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O soto gari works pretty well
Thoughts on my first BJJ class as a Judo black belt.
- Thread starter migeru29
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O soto gari works pretty well
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They created the ufc and had 2 Judokas, and remco wasn't just some hobbiest black belt.
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rofl. this is the epitome of TMA obliviousness.
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I like your thoughts here.
Tonight, I rolled with a wrestler/mma guy. He's spry and big and he often will hold a person down and smash pressure in no-gi. It's just a smash and hold, and it's effective. People complain about him, and my response is that yes, it's boring on his part. But on your part, escape.
I like it. Sometimes, a dude is going to just hold you down and shut off your normal routes. It's all grappling. Get out and deal with it. You're a fucking grappler, for god's sake.
On his part, yes he's missing the point by some perspective, but I can't control that, and maybe that's what he wants to train, who am I to judge? It's all ground fighting and it's all the experience of training. He wants to hold me and do nothing but smother, I want to escape and break his arm. I don't mind it.
If you are truly training with USA Judo national team members, then you are training with better judoka than 99% of judoka ever will train against--even if the US National team isn't nearly as good as, say, Russia's or Japan's.
No, it's just that you haven't faced someone who knows what they are doing with grips. The sleeve grip speaks for itself, and you just need to block the shoulder with the lapel grip. Or block with your elbow. If you just have one grip, you circle to that side and pull uke to snap down his head when he tries to square up his other side.
Agreed, it's odd to hear some high ranked BJJ people not trying to escape pins. All the BB's I've rolled with are very hard to keep down.
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To be clear, I've trained with national team members, but in the US the national team as such doesn't really exist. To be more precise, we have the Olympic Training Center which houses a certain number of athletes aspiring to the games, but they're in many cases not the best in the US. Those are the people I've trained with (though not all the time, I don't want to misrepresent) because they come up to my club in Denver from time to time (it's a pretty competitive club). Most of the best US Judoka actually train at one of a few gyms which are not the OTC, namely Jimmy Pedro's in Massachusetts and San Jose State University which is one of the only varsity Judo programs in the US collegiate system and has Mike Swain as its head coach. So I've trained with some very good people, but most are not really international caliber athletes IMO. These are people who would do well to medal at B and C level events.
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I'll fight like hell to prevent you establishing top control as I'm getting my guard passed, but when you've totally locked down I'm going to set up the best defense I can and then try to find holes in your top control to improve my position. If it's a match things are a little different, but that's what I'd do in rolling.
This is common in BJJ. I'm not a great takedown artist, but just my training with wrestlers and Judoka have made me formidable to most BJJ practitioners when it comes to takedowns. It's enough so that I've had people ask how many years I wrestled at tournaments.
I don't know why a lot of BJJ practitioners are bad at takedowns (as you said, it's HOW a grappler get the fight to the ground). I would presume it's due to focusing on the ground techniques so much that standup is neglected and then once that weakness is pointed out, a lot of people continue to only focus on their strengths instead of their weaknesses.. thus a generation of grapplers that can't perform competent takedowns.
I don't know why a lot of BJJ practitioners are bad at takedowns (as you said, it's HOW a grappler get the fight to the ground). I would presume it's due to focusing on the ground techniques so much that standup is neglected and then once that weakness is pointed out, a lot of people continue to only focus on their strengths instead of their weaknesses.. thus a generation of grapplers that can't perform competent takedowns.
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Its due to the BJJ rules, if you allow pulling guard then this will be the most feasible and lucrative strategy when you meat a guy with better takedowns than yourself! So its the name of the game so to speak - the same was also seen hundred years ago under the Kosen ruleset in judo - the guy with the weakest throws will automatically pull down to groundfighting without risking anything on his feets.
The good thing is that you become very good on the ground but the bad of course is weak throwing skills and also takedown defense will deteriorate or not be developed....
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Ironically, if you took away sweep points and takedown points, I think you might see people more willing to take top position. Pulling guard under current ruleset= guy on bottom can't lose 2 points for takedown or sweep, guy on top CAN lose points for sweep for ending up in the exact same position, and get an advantage scored if he base gets shaken. Get rid of takedown and sweep points, and you'd see a lot more aggresive guard passing, which sounds like the whole point if we're going to have a sport based around a high level of ground specialization
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Statements like 'a good guy won't tap to pressure' miss the point of the matter, since for starters its partially incorrect anyways since you can actually in the right position, and the difference between 'pressure' and 'submission hold' is more like a continuum besides.
But more then that, the big point is that pressure is the thing you need in order to get the tap. Josh Barnett didn't break dean listers 16 year unsubmitted streak by just doing a move. Well, he did just do it, but the reason he could 'just do it' was because for the other nineteen minutes and thirty seconds of that match he was driving with his feet and dropping shoulders and elbows into deans neck to suck out his blood oxygen and make life very unpleasant.
That's the problem inherent with the 'position or submission' paradigm a lot of people have in their heads; there are a lot of guys who like to say things like 'I'm always fighting for the submission, I look for the finish' and then go out, play the game, and win by advantages. You cant argue with success, but you can argue there is a fundamental disconnect going on there, a missing link. If you want to actually get taps on someone good in actual fact, you need pressure.
The only other significant option is to try and catch forced errors by creating scramble situations and novel/unpopular transitions. But these always rely on a certain level of 'inexperience' on the part of opponents who are not 'wise to your tricks'; an informational asymmetry between your familiarity of the situation and theirs. You can *beat* the champion with that, but once you *are* the champion and everyone's studying film on you, that advantage is diminished.
Consistent and reliable success at getting submission finishes on a high percentage of your opponents means having the skills and ability to inflict punishment on the opponent, at all times, but especially when in a superior position against a defensive player. That's what makes a finisher.
But more then that, the big point is that pressure is the thing you need in order to get the tap. Josh Barnett didn't break dean listers 16 year unsubmitted streak by just doing a move. Well, he did just do it, but the reason he could 'just do it' was because for the other nineteen minutes and thirty seconds of that match he was driving with his feet and dropping shoulders and elbows into deans neck to suck out his blood oxygen and make life very unpleasant.
That's the problem inherent with the 'position or submission' paradigm a lot of people have in their heads; there are a lot of guys who like to say things like 'I'm always fighting for the submission, I look for the finish' and then go out, play the game, and win by advantages. You cant argue with success, but you can argue there is a fundamental disconnect going on there, a missing link. If you want to actually get taps on someone good in actual fact, you need pressure.
The only other significant option is to try and catch forced errors by creating scramble situations and novel/unpopular transitions. But these always rely on a certain level of 'inexperience' on the part of opponents who are not 'wise to your tricks'; an informational asymmetry between your familiarity of the situation and theirs. You can *beat* the champion with that, but once you *are* the champion and everyone's studying film on you, that advantage is diminished.
Consistent and reliable success at getting submission finishes on a high percentage of your opponents means having the skills and ability to inflict punishment on the opponent, at all times, but especially when in a superior position against a defensive player. That's what makes a finisher.
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Why would I do that? I mean, the festivals are cool but I don't know what that has to do with cake.
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This
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So far nobody was relaxed when I pin them strongly specially if I put my gi or belly on their faces.. is hard to breath after breathe after 2 minutes you know...
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Why do you need to throw someone in Judo? Simple. Because all fights start standing not on the ground. And only a people with no martial arts knowledge whatsoever will follow to yoru guard pulling. After all this are martial arts and needs to make sense. All I am saying and asking is if all BJJ gyms are like this and the answer was no so that's good. At this age I don't even care i have both bad knees and I now only practice my ground game which is more fun i don't care about competition anymore. But for someone who is starting I think that's a HUGE gap to be a submision wizard but no skill whatsoever to take down opponents. Technically speaking gracie Jiu-Jitsu come from Judo and they use throws and takedowns but somehow BJJ stayed away from it. It should be 50%/50% or 60%/40% but not like 85% submissions skills and 15% wrestling that doesn't make sense in my opinion. But I respect everyone opinion.
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Agree with this post. Actually Brazilian Judo is just savage, Russian Judo as well.
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Rickson learned from Helio and Helio learned from Maeda. So what's your point? The only difference is that Helio focused more on newaza and of course you are going to focus on something and practice more than something more than the other Judo guys who do about 70% throws and 30% newaza you are going to win.. is just common sense.
