thoughts on BJ Penn?

BJ was an excellent fighter but the game has passed him by. He is not the LW GOAT, but he does belong in that discussion. He does not belong in the P4P GOAT discussion--not even a discussion of the top 5.

That said, I love his attitude (willingness to fight people of any size) and he is an exciting fighter to watch. He should stay retired, though. At this point he is hurting his legacy every time he steps in the cage.
 
I think he's top 10 GOAT right now but the sport is young so that will likely change in a few years. Jones and Aldo will probably pass them if they stay relatively healthy and there's an argument that they're already ahead of him.

justblaze717 said:
I think his standup is slightly overrated. He should take a cue from Maia and start focusing more on his wrestling and submissions.
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I agree with this, though to be fair to Penn he did attempt takedowns in his last three outings. He was just too undersized to make it work.
 
Looking forward to his walkout music but the guy has a daughter and he's gone all soft. I just don't think he has the killer instinct anymore.
 
I like BJ Penn, and think he has a huge MMA legacy, but like many high level athletes he just did not know when to stop.

"to the death Georges", going to court, his mom, his ridiculous fans.

Should never have fought GSP again, nevermind Rory.

I still think he probably won the first Edgar fight, but shit happens. If you dont finish you run the risk. He should have moved on and work at being better than Frankie the next time, which he clearly did not.

There is no shame in having a TON of natural skill but not having the drive you once did. There is shame in acting like a petulant child about it.
 
He's a legend. Working with Dolce will show us if BJ can still be the man or not. I'm excited, but I won't call this one prematurely. He made mistakes fighting bigger guys in this day in age in MMA, he's a warrior for it though. In my opinion the best lightweight of all time (though people probably are starting to think Pettis is... I'll face that music when it comes haha). I'm obviously biased, but he is a legend and still in a class of his own.

If he comes out smacking his face and ready to lick blood off of his gloves, he's unstoppable. I truly believe that when he's in that killer instinct state of mind he can beat anyone. Having children, I think, softened him up a bit.
 
jlazer said:
Big fucking deal. It isn't that big of an accomplishment when you're just given title shots left and right. Especially during his time.

He's not even close to top ten
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Spoken like a true keyboard warrior. It's going to take more than winning world titles in two weight classes to impress Sherdog superstar jlazer.
 
UFC84Forever said:
He's a legend. Working with Dolce will show us if BJ can still be the man or not. I'm excited, but I won't call this one prematurely. He made mistakes fighting bigger guys in this day in age in MMA, he's a warrior for it though. In my opinion the best lightweight of all time (though people probably are starting to think Pettis is... I'll face that music when it comes haha). I'm obviously biased, but he is a legend and still in a class of his own.

If he comes out smacking his face and ready to lick blood off of his gloves, he's unstoppable. I truly believe that when he's in that killer instinct state of mind he can beat anyone. Having children, I think, softened him up a bit.
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Pettis is great but it's hard to forget the Guida fight (as much as I'd like to). I'd easily rank BJ ahead of him on an all-time greatest lightweight list.
 
He is going to get merked for a 3rd time by Edgar and then he will be 1-5-1 in his last 7 fights. Seriously, this is going to be Tito Ortiz 2.0 with the horrible record to end his career.

The most overhyped fighter of all time, only next to Fedor.
 
Lochlan said:
I like BJ Penn, and think he has a huge MMA legacy, but like many high level athletes he just did not know when to stop.

"to the death Georges", going to court, his mom, his ridiculous fans.

Should never have fought GSP again, nevermind Rory.

I still think he probably won the first Edgar fight, but shit happens. If you dont finish you run the risk. He should have moved on and work at being better than Frankie the next time, which he clearly did not.

There is no shame in having a TON of natural skill but not having the drive you once did. There is shame in acting like a petulant child about it.
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With BJ it's not a matter of not knowing when to stop. His recent welterweight venture was a huge mistake. He racked up a few losses fighting guys he had no business fighting, and unfortunately that is enough for a few vocal boneheads to discredit him as a fighter.

I have high hopes for him at featherweight. I give him a chance against Frankie but it is a very risky fight to take in his debut at the weight class. Another loss kills any chance for him to pick up any steam, although with a win he's right back in the thick of it.
 
tappedtostrikes said:
He is going to get merked for a 3rd time by Edgar and then he will be 1-5-1 in his last 7 fights.

The most overhyped fighter of all time, only next to Fedor.
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This is one of the boneheads I was referring to. Let's list his win-loss record without actually looking at the guys he fought and the fact that he was fighting in a weight class too heavy.
 
jlazer said:
If he is so talented, why did he lost so much? Why did other fighters do moreand better things than him?

How do you know how hard he trained?

I never understood why he was labeled as "so talented" moreso than other fighters that were better than him. Ufc hype machine I guess
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You seriously don't think BJ is talented? He's the first American to ever win the Mundials right after receiving his black belt (from Nova Uniao no less) after 3.5 years. You do realize the average person takes like 8 years to do the same thing right, let alone win a world championship? Top that off with all the ungodly athletic feats he can do from scratching his ear with his foot, pulling off a jailbreak only using his legs, the 3 foot pool jump, going airborne from a double leg but still stuffing the TD, stuffing an entire first round of TDs as a fat 165er from one of the p4p greats in GSP when no other WW has been able to do so. Sorry but your average fighter can't even pull off one of those things.

You also can't extrapolate any of that shit from just looking at a record, which is the basis of your argument. Is he a bit overrated? Yes. But even the most delusional haters like TonyCPA can't even say BJ was just average on the talent department; not unless they're misinformed. I also don't understand how you think BJ did anything but not train hard. As much as it pains me to say as a huge BJ fan, were you not around to see Penn-GSP II primetime? Lifting rocks, surfing, Dana even calling him out on the show. Burrito Penn? Sorry but you sound like you're misinformed and though I'm being a bit presumptuous, I think your joindate confirms that.
 
I totally agree with you MarkHammer. He has been exposed for sure. But there are improvements to be made, and I think Pettis has made those improvements. Certainly BJ felt super human, seeing him stopping takedowns hopping around on one leg haha

Glad to hear I'm not alone in ranking BJ as the best ever lightweight at this time.
 
MarkHammer said:
This is one of the boneheads I was referring to. Let's list his win-loss record without actually looking at the guys he fought and the fact that he was fighting in a weight class too heavy.
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So we should give BJ Penn tons of props for taking fights above his weight-class where he got his ass kicked? We should celebrate his lack of preparation and training and showing up overweight and receiving a beating because he has no cardio?

I will never understand his fans, they talk him up as if he's some sort of giant killer or something. His record is terrible above lightweight, and just taking fights out of your weight class and getting destroyed shouldn't get you huge accolades.

He would have been finished in his last 3 fights straight if they were even 1 round longer.
 
Snizzar may have just said it best.

You should look at your career like a marathon, not a sprint. Just because you lose a fight does not mean that you are not good anymore.

Penn has a chance at another leg of the marathon against Edgar. I'm hoping he prevails.
 
jlazer said:
If he is so talented, why did he lost so much? Why did other fighters do moreand better things than him?

How do you know how hard he trained?

I never understood why he was labeled as "so talented" moreso than other fighters that were better than him. Ufc hype machine I guess
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There isn't really another fighter who has ever challenged himself at higher weight classes the same way BJ has. So I mean, that would be at least one reason he has more losses than plenty of the other guys generally ranked ahead of him on the all time list.

And sure, ppl will say, so what he lost...I get that. But at the same time, if you're comparing him to another fighter, there isn't really a comparison cuz no one else really tried.
 
Also, why can't people understand BJ's overall record is not a good indicator of his actual skill set/lightweight status? You guys call fluke and choose to ignore that he won the WW belt, but then use his above weight record to bash him.

His LIGHTWEIGHT record is 11-3-1.
 
BJ Penn is the greatest lightweight fighter we've seen to date. He should get props for fighting bigger guys, he even tried to get Dana to let him fight a HW. IF he would've stayed at 55 his entire career his legacy by the casuals would be a different story.
 
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